Rhubarb and Anime

[altivo]

Celebrated the newly cleaned oven by baking another rhubarb pie. This one has strawberries in it as well, since they had some decent ones on sale at the market Saturday. Mmmm. I'm amazed how many people have been telling me they never tasted rhubarb. To me it was part of home cooking, something we had every spring, but I guess in an age of take out food and frozen microwave convenience all but the most popular and common choices just tend to disappear. That's sad.

One of my grandmothers was of Pennsylvania Dutch descent. Pies are a central feature of that culture's food, and she was a fine baker. I learned pie-making from her and from my mother, to the point where most of my friends think it's a genetic skill.

Now, revisiting the subject of anime, we watched Pom Poko over the weekend. I know, everyone else was at the theatre to see Over the Hedge and I have no intention of missing that. But I wanted to look at something not directly influenced by Miyazaki in case my dislike for anime turned out to be actually a dislike for Miyazaki. It isn't. Pom Poko is different, but still has major problems for me. Fuller commentary is available on the Clydesdale Librarian pages.

Comments

[doco.livejournal.com]

I don't know why, but most of the time I get to eat rhubarb now, it seems to be too sweetened for my taste. You know, the crunchy kind of sweet, where there's so much sugar in the dish it does even refuse to dissolve... ugh. Either I'm not as sweet-toothed anymore as I was ten or fifteen years ago, or my parents just don't like the sour taste of rhubarb any more and try to outsweeten it, I don't know which.

[calydor.livejournal.com]

*self-slaps* I read that as Porn Poko and immediately wondered why you'd be into hentai.

GREAT idea!

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

I live right in the middle of the rhubarb triangle, and as such, can appreciate the qualities of the most under-rated food stuff in the world.

I have never had a rhubarb crumble with strawberries in though. I suppose the sugars in the strawberries are good for counter-acting the tartness of the rhubarb. I will certainly have to give it a go, next time I have do some cooking. :)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

There is a general tendency in cooking today to oversweeten everything. I agree that rhubarb should retain enough tartness so you notice it. :)

We find in trying out recipes from the newspaper or newer cookbooks that we can cut the sugar back by as much as half and they turn out just fine.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Nope, there's no porn in it. The PG rating is for violence.

Re: GREAT idea!

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Whoa! I never heard of the Rhubarb Triangle before. Makes me think of the Bermuda Triangle though. Abandon all hope, ye who enter here, unless you like rhubarb... ;P

Strawberries and rhubarb go together just like bread and butter. It's an old tradition, probably out of that notion that things that ripen at the same time are meant to be eaten together. In any case, they compliment each other very nicely, and here in the US, you rarely see rhubarb pie in restaurants or bakeries. It is always strawberry-rhubarb. For most people, the idea of rhubarb alone just wouldn't occur to them.

I should probably post a recipe for rhubarb cake or rhubarb muffins. :)

[darkhorseman.livejournal.com]

*sniffsniff* *headbutt* PIE!

[niko-winterset.livejournal.com]

*chuckles* I have to admit to seeing the same thing as Caly but in my case I was a bleary-eyed half awake horse.

[niko-winterset.livejournal.com]

*grins* Funny how nearly everyone so far focused on pie instead of the anime. Personally I have always thought myself to be an odd furry in that I generally loathe anime in every shape, form or fashion. It is just not an art style I can enjoy. The characters tend to be so unrealistic, overdrawn and exaggerated. I am sure there is some out there that I would like but to me art and animated shows have to have some semblance of realism to them.

I had to blink and rub my eyes as I was driving around Dallas for they have chains of stores here devoted to Anime. I think that is the case anyway. I cannot imagine a store with 'Anime' in the name being related to anything but just that.

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

I have to admit, Anime is usually a turn off for me as well. But there is the odd one that is done really well. Spirited Away, and Princess Mononoke for example. As well as Howl's Moving Castle, and Wolf's Rain.

Anime's major problem in my opinion is its lack of accessability to the un-itiated. Therefore, I think the secret to good Anime as far as people like me are concerned; lies in a story that is halfway possible for a Westerner to follow.

Re: GREAT idea!

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

It must be a US thing. I have never seen a Rhubarb and Strawberry pie anywhere. Rhubarb and Apple or Rhubarb and Blackberry are common. But never Strawberry. How odd.

I should probably post a recipe for rhubarb cake or rhubarb muffins.

Please do. I'd like to make a few.

[niko-winterset.livejournal.com]

I think you may be right there. I don't think I have been exposed to any well done Anime and that has likely soured my feelings towards it. Thanks for the tips on some ones to see. I may have to check them out and see if they are more to my liking.

[linnaeus.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed Pom Poko, but I can't really disagree with any of your assessment of it (though tanukis are actually canids, rather than badgers). The pacing was a bit slow, and there are a lot of actions on the parts of the characters that are hard for non-Japanese to relate to. Besides having a general Japanese sensibility, I've heard the film described as a "survey course in Japanese folklore", with various bits from Japanese ghost stories, nursery rhymes and the like thrown in to invoke smiles of recognition from Japanese viewers only serve to puzzle most American viewers.

The moral, if there was one aside from "It's sad, but you can't stop progress" or "pity those who can't adapt", I would see as something along the lines of "There is still a little magic in the world, but it's generally been forced to hide, put on a tie, and get a day job." Depressing, but a little hopeful. Oh, and the soundtrack was incredible.

[calydor.livejournal.com]

I think you'd like shows like Wolf's Rain or Scrapped Princess, then. They're drawn much more realistically, doesn't do the chibi-style characters fifteen times for every scene, and have a good story as well. Wolf's Rain is kinda violent though, whereas the fights in Scrapped Princess ... Let's just say the heroes are ridiculously overpowered. ;-)

[captpackrat.livejournal.com]

You really have to watch it in Japanese with English subtitles to get a lot of the jokes the Disney dubbers edited out. They're not saying "raccoon pouch" in Japanese....

And yes, this particular font does make it look like Porn Poko

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Poke your muzzle into a hot pie and you might regret it. Not a nice place to have blisters.

[darkhorseman.livejournal.com]

Around my house you will get headbutted, then nipped and possibly molested if you did not give up treats

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Well, I've made negative comments about them before. The only one I've seen that I actually liked was Kiki's Delivery Service. I complained about Howl's Moving Castle a week or two ago, pretty much panned The Cat Returns on the Clydesdale Librarian site back in April, and trashed Spirited Away here almost a year ago.

The art work used for backgrounds is sometimes exquisite, but the animation is rarely good. The story lines are chopped up and incoherent, written by and for those with ADHD I think.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

described as a "survey course in Japanese folklore"

This is how my brother described Spirited Away as well.

I took the "badger" explanation from IMDB. I didn't think there were real raccoons in Japan. On the other hand, those are mighty odd looking canids.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

We figured out the "pouch" thing pretty fast. It was obvious from the artwork. Had it not been dubbed out, the film would have probably got PG13 from the MPAA bluenoses.

Re: GREAT idea!

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Actually there's a pie seen occasionally around here that is called "Bumbleberry." It has rhubarb, apple, blackberry, and blueberry all tossed together. Very tasty.

[typographer.livejournal.com]

We went to one of our favorite restaurants last night on the way home from the theatre (the final musical of this year's season tickets). They always have a couple of seasonal desserts in addition to a few year round ones.

Both of the seasonal desserts were rhubarb. I was more than slightly tempted to try the rhubarb sorbet, but I went with the rhubarb slump. Mmmmmmmm! hot rhubarb and vanila ice cream!

My jumbled thoughts.

[ruwhei.livejournal.com]

I personally like anime, but am not a Miyazaki fan. How can this be! Miyazaki is widely held as the shining peak of anime-dom, as being the master of the japanese tale.

Pom Poko is one of my favorite Miyazaki stories, but it really boils down to how much you like Japanese culture and japanese folk stories. If you really aren't that interested, Pom Poko tends to fall flat on its face. Its 'furryness' of having animal characters is not enough to sell me, but the combination of the two is enough to have me enjoy the story. Yes, the ending is sad, and its something that's hard for our American sensibilities to take since we expect happy endings particularly from animated tales.

The only thing that annoys me about all of Miyazaki's works is that they are upheld as being fantastic pieces of art and that you must be CRAZY not to like them. The fact is that Miyazaki's work, though pretty in quality and heavy on the japanese folklore, is simply some of the most ACCESSIBLE anime, some of the most broadly appealing, and thus some of the most similar to the popular Disney animation we all know and love. The Regular joe audience can watch it and *accept* it, though not necessarily like it. Personally, I feel this makes Miyazaki stories not a good representation of all the different genres of Japanese anime. Is it better than the average? Almost certainly, but it lacks many of the qualities that attract anime fans to watch anime.

Miyazaki films are those chosen by anime fans to show to non-anime fans in order to gain acceptance, and overall I believe anime fans have been frustrated by the lack of general approval by the regular American population.

Anime fans like anime because of the direct differences between traditional american animation and japanese animation. Traditional American animation has always been comedic; written for adults with slapstick humor, but then adopted as a child-safe medium. The Disney movies, Mickey and Donald Duck short-cartoons, the famous Warner Bros. tales, and so forth were interrupted by the episodic Jetsons and Flintstones and Scooby Doos. The subject matter in all of these was almost universally comedic, and each episode stood on its own two feet.

Japanese animation came much later of course, and went through its evolved phases. But the subject matter was different and very appealing to young males: Giant robots, children who were more important then they seemed (the 'princess' scenario, although many were boys who could control a giant robot, for example, and that made them special). Japanese animation became serial, where successive episodes built on the previous. A true storyline began to emerge, similar to a soap opera.

What got Anime on the map of most american fans was Robotech - on its face an aliens-attack-earth-defends-with-giant-robots story, but in fact was much more a soap opera and love story. Kids (including me) would rush home to watch the Soap Opera. It was something very different from Bugs Bunny. Before Robotech shows like Battle of the Planets (though butchered) and StarBlazers had the same formula - space battles, but in reality a soap opera behind the scenes.

Further anime had rather different subject matter. Digimon explores a concept very similar to the daemons from Pullman's novels, but with a juvenile bent. There is yaoi anime (young gay male stories, but with storylines to appeal to young girl viewers), which would be unimaginable in an american culture. There are stories of ninjas and pirates, all serial. It is the serial nature of anime, along with regular writing, that is what is appealing.

The artwork does tend to be more detailed or specialized - some may carry on and on about it and some of it is fascinating. Howl's moving castle had wonderful artwork, but none of it wowed me as much as the first time I saw The Lion King.

Re: My jumbled thoughts.

[ruwhei.livejournal.com]

(I exceeded the comment limit)


Miyazaki tales I have seen and my general opinion:

Howl's Moving Castle - Incomprehensible but pretty.
Spirted Away - Has a dragon (cool). Not interested in the story.
Pom Poko - Great Japanese folklore. Depressing ending. Disputed message.
Totoro - A gigantic snorefest.
Princess Mononoke - Probably the best, but most violent - a "Mythical Legend" storyline, so you have to like that kind of thing.
Castle in the Sky - I could care less.
Porco Rosso - An accessible but meaningless little yarn, I enjoyed it.

Re: My jumbled thoughts.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

The artwork is foremost in my appreciation of animation, as well. I do appreciate some of the art in anime that I've seen, and particularly the backdrops have been impressive at times. Those for Pom Poko are gorgeous and very traditionally Japanese.

I'm not sure that we demand comedy or entirely happy endings of American animation, though. One that immediately comes to mind, and a favorite of mine, is Balto 2: Wolf Quest which is dramatic, involves a difficult quest and mystic dream sequences, and has a bittersweet ending. Dreamworks has done more of that sort of thing than Disney, of course, though your mention of The Lion King is right on target too. Comic relief, yes. But the end is not an "everything comes out right and no one was killed or hurt" situation at all. Even Disney fluff like The Fox and the Hound has some unpleasantly bitter plot elements though they probably fly right over the heads of children who watch it. I don't consider Dreamworks' Spirit, Stallion of the Cimarron to be a children's film at all because of the complicated social and ecological issues it tackles, happy ending or not. Even Shrek is a tale for adults, though it can be viewed at a shallower level by the kiddies.

I don't mind the unsatisfying ending of a story like Pom Poko but I do mind the apparent unquestioning acceptance of the situation by those involved in the story. I wanted to see anger and rage, perhaps even violence in reaction to the ecological disaster, rather than gentle attempts to influence humans. At the very least, the tanuki should have been dismantling the equipment and stealing parts of it. :) Long stretches of the story were just dragged out, in both our opinions.

Again and again with Miyazaki's films, I have felt as if they were just a string of clever scenes with nothing coherent to really hold them together. Pom Poko, of course, came from Studio Ghibli but was not Miyazaki's writing or directing, and it had a coherent plot line even though the plot wasn't presented very well.