OMG, what have I done?

[altivo]

Just mailed off $67 for postage in order to acquire 165 pounds of computer manuals. This is a complete set of 1990-era manuals for the VMS operating system. The books were free if I paid postage. Four boxes. About twelve feet of shelving required.

HP << Compaq << DEC no longer offers printed manuals at all. Today the documentation is free but comes as PDF files, PostScript files, and/or HTML. That's fine for quick reference but not any good for in depth study in my opinion. I'm taking VMS seriously. It would cost me a lot more than $67 just for the paper and toner cartridges to print off what I want to read. These are perfect bound and the page size is better suited to reading than your standard letter-size paper in a three ring binder.

I think this should rejustify my retrogeek membership, no? Or I'm just plain crazy. Well, we know that.

Comments

[scruff.livejournal.com]

Hey, OpenVMS is a valid operating system choice for Enterprise level computing! :)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Maybe, though it's not really clear for how much longer. Now that the Alpha is officially on a deathwatch and HP is trying to push IA64 users into HPUX instead, I suspect the OpenVMS system is about to be "functionally stabilized."

[kyhwana.livejournal.com]

Lies!
*flails*

We use teh Linux :P

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Linux is good, no debating that.

In fact, I wouldn't use OpenVMS if I had to pay for it. Not because it isn't good also, but because Linux is good enough and it's free. However, since OpenVMS is free for my own personal use, that's a different matter.

VMS has a hobbyist user plan that grants unlimited free licensing. The only restriction is that you can't make commercial use of it, including I suppose that you can't sell anything you create with it. That's fine with me.

Solaris has also been free lately, and I have the CD here. Booted it to look at it, but I've run out of machines to try it on for the moment.

$ set proc/priv=sysprv

[megadog.livejournal.com]

Some of us have less-than-fond memories of our time with the VMS 'Big Gray Wall'.

Re: $ set proc/priv=sysprv

[altivo.livejournal.com]

When I actually earned a living from doing VMS the wall was orange and had those nifty looseleaf binders that fold back to make the manual stand up on your desk.

VMS is verbose (or at least, DCL is) and sometimes obtuse. It still has an incredible throughput capacity running on minimalist hardware, and a stability to rival the Rock of Gibraltar.

Besides, I get a kick out of running on a desktop size box the same OS that used to occupy a whole wall of rackmounts. ;p

Re: $ set proc/priv=sysprv

[soanos.livejournal.com]

I'd get more kick out of operating a wall of rackmounted stuff tbh, but that's just me. You have a nice bargain there. And in a decade or so, it will be very valuable too. However, I doubt you'd want to sell it. :P

Re: $ set proc/priv=sysprv

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I don't want to pay the electricity for a wall of rack mounted stuff, or deal with the heat and noise. That's what's so cool about it.

Maybe you should try Hercules 390. Run an entire IBM mainframe complex all on your PC, complete with full IBM operating systems and multiple terminals...

Re: $ set proc/priv=sysprv

[soanos.livejournal.com]

Sure, but first I'd need to go to a school to study it for a few years.
I am thick as a brick what it comes to computers
(and they call me a computer techie, bah :D).
But I like the flashing lights. ;)

[atomicat.livejournal.com]

Have any use for PL-1 manuals and 8" disks? Ha! Forget it, they're mine!

[altivo.livejournal.com]

No longer any equipment to read 8 inch diskettes. I let the last of that go ten years ago (with some regret, but there's only so much space.) I have PL/I for VMS, yes, but it came with manuals. ;p

[lobowolf.livejournal.com]

I only had a brief encounter with VMS via a Microvax 3100...that was enough.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I won't argue that it makes a superb destop operating system because it really doesn't. They did hang Xwindows onto it after a while and provide the basic elements. It now has a decent web browser built off Mozilla code, full standard TCP/IP with all the familiar tools, mail client, Apache web server, etc. But VMS was always a multi-tasking server environment. In the days of terminals attached to a multi-user host, it was an amazing workhorse. Even the little desktop Alpha I have here at home is rated to handle 64 users at once, though not all on serial ports of course. They would have been on terminal servers attached via ethernet. Heh. Desktop operating systems don't usually have batch job queues and a dozen different language compilers either. I have it doing PSK31 and DXClusters under Linux, and it does those without even blinking when you add additional tasks running in parallel. VMS should be even better.

I'm using it right now to provide a web server environment for testing. As such it has all the same features you'd have on a Linux or Windows based server, but seems to have twice the throughput of an Intel processor running at the same speed. I plan to try some real engineering number crunching on it eventually, antenna modeling and stuff like that. Since it has compilers for almost any language you might want to use, it shouldn't be too hard to port some stuff over onto it.

[lobowolf.livejournal.com]

It was used as a system manager for a GE EDACS radio system. Each channel plugged into a serial port. Because it was so aptly suited for multitasking, it could monitor the status of all ten channels in real-time. Back before the Turnpike Authority went to EZ-Pass, they had a automated token system where you threw the tokens into the basket...again, that was also monitored by a DEC Microvax 3100 because it could monitor multiple lanes simultaneously in real time.

I never did much with it, really, but I did have to interact with it. Some of the commands were scary, and it would happily do whatever you told it (for better or for worse).

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, multitasking in real time is the forte of most DEC operating systems. When I was at Columbia College, the statewide network of academic libraries switched from a catalog and circulation system that ran on an IBM mainframe to one that ran on a DEC Alpha under VMS. Performance actually improved. We're talking about something like 90 sites scattered over Illinois and a total of something like a thousand dedicated terminals in addition to telnet and dialup connections. I'm not sure just what model hardware the server was, but it was probably something like an ES-40, about the size of a compact dorm room refrigerator. Response time was almost always instantaneous. It only slowed down if your campus internet connection was overloaded.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Oh, and yes, like UNIX, VMS takes orders well. And rejects 'em instantly if you have a punction mark in the wrong place, too.

At least it doesn't have any REALLY scary commands, like "EXECUTE OPERATOR"

My favorite has always been SPAWN/NOWAIT *grin*

Secret VMS command fu

[rustitobuck.livejournal.com]

RUN SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT/DETACH/INPUT=SOMETHING.COM/OUTPUT=SOMETHING.LOG/ERROR=DECW$DISPLAY

Man, what a hack.

My kind of bedtime reading, though I got the version 3.0 volume while I was in college.

Sexual and violent computer terms: spawn, fork, kill, terminate, abort, ...

Re: Secret VMS command fu

[altivo.livejournal.com]

That's why everyone scripts everything. Or creates elaborate alias lists.

The good part is if you spell it right, it usually works. Quite unlike Windows in that respect.

[captpackrat.livejournal.com]

The last place I worked at, I had about 50 pounds worth of manuals for the Nortel Meridian 1 phone system (or as I called it, That Damn Piece of Junk), and that wasn't enough to figure the system out. I ended up ordering a CD with PDF's of all the manuals.

When I worked at Sensormatic, my boss wanted me to work with a Cisco router, but wouldn't buy me any manuals for it. He told me to just download the PDF's. So I did. And then I printed them on the company laser printer. It took the better part of a week to print, collate, hole punch and bind them all. It probably cost WAY more than if he'd just ordered a damn O'Reilly Nutshell book.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Cisco routers are so obtuse I wouldn't touch one unless they paid for me to take a class on it.

[captpackrat.livejournal.com]

I'd much rather deal with Cisco than a Nortel. At least Cisco IOS uses commands that are English, or sort-of English. The Nortel Meridian uses numbers for most of its commands.

[chibiabos.livejournal.com]

Oh My Giraffe?

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Nah, don't have one of those yet. They're cute, in a grotesque sort of way, but I think they'd be really hard to feed around here. ;D

It's "Oh my! Ganesh!" of course. The poor elephant god doesn't get much attention these days so I figure I can take his name in vain once in a while just to keep him lively.

[chibiabos.livejournal.com]

I'd probably say OMGS!

Oh My German Shepherd! ^_^

But of course my heart has bias.

You could use OME ... Oh My Epona!

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Or just OMP for "Oh my pornies?"

[chibiabos.livejournal.com]

Praise Dog, for the Shepherd is my Lord, I shall want kno ... err, okay, I'll stop there. ;P

[equusmaximus.livejournal.com]

"I think this should rejustify my retrogeek membership, no? Or I'm just plain crazy."

Yes, to both suggestions. :) I have a large collection of old 8-bit machines myself, but almost all of them are just home-computer types (PET, Commodore, Coleco-ADAM, etc.) I also have a complete DEC PDP-11 system (CPU, 2 DT-100 terminals, and printer) but I have no idea (yet) how it works.

What I need, is a nice neat room to set up my museum. %)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I do like the old 8-bits, but most of them are wrapped in plastic and stored at the moment. We have two TRS-80 model 4P (one with hard drive,) and a Gimix Ghost (SS-50 bus, 6800 processor, yes only two zeros.) In the house I have a TRS80 Model 100 laptop that I actually use, and a NEC Starlet that I once used extensively but the TRS80 is more convenient now.

There should be lots of PDP-11 information on the web. I used one briefly back in the late 1980s, but never enough to really learn it. They ran several different operating systems and the only one I've had any exposure to is RSX.

I was an extensive Amiga fan, even though I'm not and never have been a game player. Still have a 2000 and a 3000T.

[equusmaximus.livejournal.com]

I was also a major Amiga fan. I started off with a 1000, and added the 1060 Sidecar for PC compatibility. Eventually I upgraded to a 2000, and maxed it out with pretty much everything other than an accelerator card. Over the years, I've amassed a collection of Amiga computers, including 2 1000's, 2 500's, 4 2000's, at least 2 3000's and a 3000T. There's a 600, and a 1200 in there somewhere, and I'd like to get my hands on a 4000 and/or 4000T.

My original Amiga days ended when theives broke into my Mom's house, stealing over $25k worth of equipment. The insurance co. paid less than $14k, but that was enough to get an Pentium computer, and put a down-payment on a house. Someday, I'm going to get those old Amigas set up again, one of each, and sell off the others to people who are crazier than I am. %)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

My 3000 is really a 3000T but I usually drop the T because no one knows what it means. Those things were monsters, bigger than either of my DEC Alphas.

The 2000 was scorched by a lightning surge years ago. It still works, but the serial ports are blown out. I got the replacement chips to repair it but still haven't gotten around to it because I have no space to set it up in any case.

[soanos.livejournal.com]

Got some commodore and Amstrad stuff, too, along with some Sharp hardware. :P

And I still actively fiddle with my Amiga 500, Amiga 1200 and Commodore 64 (and 128D too). :)

Anyone got a tape deck for Salora Fellow I could use?
Seems to use a 3.5mm plug...

Where is my membership card? :D

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

I think you've gone past retrogeek now :) Blimes thats a lot of paper.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well, I can always use 'em as doorstops or firestarters. ;p

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

Heavy bundles of paper make lousey firestarters...I learnt that the hard way...I've said too much

[altivo.livejournal.com]

True. You have to rip out the pages for that. Solid books will burn like logs once the fire is actually going, though usually that's a situation where they are also throwing librarians and authors into the fire.

[saythename.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a marriage.

"My God! What have I done!"

XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw54-rCIrPs

You just better put up a site that I can play Galtrader on!

*laughs but hugs*

[saythename.livejournal.com]

Actually, I want Galtrader as an app I can use
on Windows.

@.@

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Too much artillery. I'm looking for the MUSH port though. There is one, I know that.