Intolerance, what we can do about it...
Aug. 11th, 2005 09:13 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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marzolan, umakami, pokeypony and others:
True Story. A religion teacher assigned her class an essay on what makes a good Christian. One student wrote about praying nightly, say no to abortion, banning gay marriage, and donating money. The other student wrote about talking to God and allowing people to enjoy their lives, and supporting gay marriage. The day the teacher was to hand the papers back, she called up the second student and told him she would pray for him when he went to hell. The student asked why would he be going to hell, and why he got an F on his paper. The teacher told him that Catholicism is against gay marriage. The student looked at her for a minute, then said aloud, "I'm gay." The teacher kicked him out of class as if he had said fuck or worshiped Satan. A girl in the back of class who had a boyfriend and was obviously straight got up and left too.
If you would leave the classroom, repost this. It doesn't matter if you're straight, bi, or gay. It doesn't matter if you're catholic or not. Everyone is a human being and deserves happiness.
With all deference tocorelog, who has posted a well-thought-out commentary on this meme, not only would I walk out in this situation, I have done so on several occasions. I do agree that sometimes one can do better by standing up and accusing the perpetrator of the injustice to his or her face, but there are also occasions where that is not going to be effective. I have done it both ways, but to tell the truth, it has been my experience that the simple walk-out usually had the most impact.
When I was in high school, I was often brave enough to stand my ground and verbally attack injustice when I saw it, even when the perpetrators were school administrators or teachers. I always got away with it because I was an honor student and I was careful not to break any rules. The trouble was, I didn't achieve much by it either. Oh, a few teachers chose their words more carefully after receiving one of my attacks, and a couple were pleased to get rid of me when I graduated, but even when others agreed with me, it didn't get them to join me, at least not in public. After all, do you stand next to a lightning rod when there's a storm brewing?
I have also used the walk out tactic, and quite honestly, it can be effective. Two examples here.
In 1978, in spite of two previous clashes with the Episcopal Church over the rights of gay people and God's acceptance for them, I was still an active church member who served at masses and sang in the choir. That spring a statement issued by the house of bishops was directed to be read in every Episcopal congregation in the US. It addressed specifically the question of ordaining openly gay men to the priesthood, and stated that this was not to be done and was considered inappropriate even if the man were celibate. The rector of my own church had to stand and read this abominable stupidity from the pulpit. I sat in the choir, taken aback, having had no warning. Not only was I gay, several other choir members were gay or lesbian, the organist was gay... and... the rector himself was gay. He was certainly not the only gay man in holy orders in the Episcopal Church at that time either, not by a very long shot. I quietly stood up, left the choir, went and hung my robes in the choir room, and left that church. This was the third strike for the Episcopal Church on that issue during my lifetime, and I vowed I would never give them another chance. I have not done so.
My action, not entirely obvious, but at least pretty likely to have been inspired by the statement being read, caused a little stir after church that day, or so I've heard. I was later contacted by individual members of the congregation who asked me about it, and I simply told them the truth, that I was washing my hands of any further involvement in the church of bigotry and intolerance. Some pleaded with me to come back, saying that I must realize they agreed with me, others just sighed and let it drop. However, as it turns out, I wasn't the only one who did what I did that day. The message stuck in some people's minds, I'm convinced. Many years later, the Episcopal Church has reversed itself on this issue. Not only are there openly gay priests, but just a year or so back, the first openly gay bishop was consecrated. Now the other side, those who remain resolutely opposed to recognition for gays as human beings, are walking out. And I say "good riddance" to them. However, I will never return to the Episcopal or any other Christian church. There are other reasons for that, not relevant here.
The second example has to do with employment rather than religion. Over the years, I have resigned otherwise good jobs on several occasions because of ethical conflicts with the policies or behavior of the employer. In one case, back in 1983, my decision to walk out had a substantial impact. There was nothing to be gained by directly challenging my boss. She had been placed there for political reasons that had nothing to do with me and in fact were pretty substantial. But her attitudes toward and treatment of the skilled technical people who had to report to her were abominable. You've all read Dilbert cartoons, and this was a fine example of Dilbert in real life. I resigned and took a job elsewhere. I gave clear statements of my reasons at the exit interview. Nine months later (the wheels of justice always grind slowly) not only was that woman demoted and removed to another division, but her replacement called and begged me to come back. Many staffers were removed from under the heel of a stupid and tyrannical manager that day. Sometimes you really can have more impact by just walking out than you ever could have by staying and fighting.
In the religion class described in this original meme, I would have walked out. Staying to argue with that teacher would serve no purpose. I simply would have been ordered to leave, in the same way that the first gay student was kicked out. Walking out serves both to show solidarity with the victim of injustice, and to state an opinion on the insignificance of the tyrant who committed the injustice. I will not be cowed by petty tyrants, I will do the right thing as and when I see it. This has always earned me respect, even though it has frequently cost me in terms of financial or other security.
marzolan, umakami, pokeypony and others:True Story. A religion teacher assigned her class an essay on what makes a good Christian. One student wrote about praying nightly, say no to abortion, banning gay marriage, and donating money. The other student wrote about talking to God and allowing people to enjoy their lives, and supporting gay marriage. The day the teacher was to hand the papers back, she called up the second student and told him she would pray for him when he went to hell. The student asked why would he be going to hell, and why he got an F on his paper. The teacher told him that Catholicism is against gay marriage. The student looked at her for a minute, then said aloud, "I'm gay." The teacher kicked him out of class as if he had said fuck or worshiped Satan. A girl in the back of class who had a boyfriend and was obviously straight got up and left too.
If you would leave the classroom, repost this. It doesn't matter if you're straight, bi, or gay. It doesn't matter if you're catholic or not. Everyone is a human being and deserves happiness.
With all deference to
corelog, who has posted a well-thought-out commentary on this meme, not only would I walk out in this situation, I have done so on several occasions. I do agree that sometimes one can do better by standing up and accusing the perpetrator of the injustice to his or her face, but there are also occasions where that is not going to be effective. I have done it both ways, but to tell the truth, it has been my experience that the simple walk-out usually had the most impact.When I was in high school, I was often brave enough to stand my ground and verbally attack injustice when I saw it, even when the perpetrators were school administrators or teachers. I always got away with it because I was an honor student and I was careful not to break any rules. The trouble was, I didn't achieve much by it either. Oh, a few teachers chose their words more carefully after receiving one of my attacks, and a couple were pleased to get rid of me when I graduated, but even when others agreed with me, it didn't get them to join me, at least not in public. After all, do you stand next to a lightning rod when there's a storm brewing?
I have also used the walk out tactic, and quite honestly, it can be effective. Two examples here.
In 1978, in spite of two previous clashes with the Episcopal Church over the rights of gay people and God's acceptance for them, I was still an active church member who served at masses and sang in the choir. That spring a statement issued by the house of bishops was directed to be read in every Episcopal congregation in the US. It addressed specifically the question of ordaining openly gay men to the priesthood, and stated that this was not to be done and was considered inappropriate even if the man were celibate. The rector of my own church had to stand and read this abominable stupidity from the pulpit. I sat in the choir, taken aback, having had no warning. Not only was I gay, several other choir members were gay or lesbian, the organist was gay... and... the rector himself was gay. He was certainly not the only gay man in holy orders in the Episcopal Church at that time either, not by a very long shot. I quietly stood up, left the choir, went and hung my robes in the choir room, and left that church. This was the third strike for the Episcopal Church on that issue during my lifetime, and I vowed I would never give them another chance. I have not done so.
My action, not entirely obvious, but at least pretty likely to have been inspired by the statement being read, caused a little stir after church that day, or so I've heard. I was later contacted by individual members of the congregation who asked me about it, and I simply told them the truth, that I was washing my hands of any further involvement in the church of bigotry and intolerance. Some pleaded with me to come back, saying that I must realize they agreed with me, others just sighed and let it drop. However, as it turns out, I wasn't the only one who did what I did that day. The message stuck in some people's minds, I'm convinced. Many years later, the Episcopal Church has reversed itself on this issue. Not only are there openly gay priests, but just a year or so back, the first openly gay bishop was consecrated. Now the other side, those who remain resolutely opposed to recognition for gays as human beings, are walking out. And I say "good riddance" to them. However, I will never return to the Episcopal or any other Christian church. There are other reasons for that, not relevant here.
The second example has to do with employment rather than religion. Over the years, I have resigned otherwise good jobs on several occasions because of ethical conflicts with the policies or behavior of the employer. In one case, back in 1983, my decision to walk out had a substantial impact. There was nothing to be gained by directly challenging my boss. She had been placed there for political reasons that had nothing to do with me and in fact were pretty substantial. But her attitudes toward and treatment of the skilled technical people who had to report to her were abominable. You've all read Dilbert cartoons, and this was a fine example of Dilbert in real life. I resigned and took a job elsewhere. I gave clear statements of my reasons at the exit interview. Nine months later (the wheels of justice always grind slowly) not only was that woman demoted and removed to another division, but her replacement called and begged me to come back. Many staffers were removed from under the heel of a stupid and tyrannical manager that day. Sometimes you really can have more impact by just walking out than you ever could have by staying and fighting.
In the religion class described in this original meme, I would have walked out. Staying to argue with that teacher would serve no purpose. I simply would have been ordered to leave, in the same way that the first gay student was kicked out. Walking out serves both to show solidarity with the victim of injustice, and to state an opinion on the insignificance of the tyrant who committed the injustice. I will not be cowed by petty tyrants, I will do the right thing as and when I see it. This has always earned me respect, even though it has frequently cost me in terms of financial or other security.
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no subject
Date: 2005-08-11 07:25 pm (UTC)And quite honestly, I would expect the teacher in that religion class to throw me out. But at least I would have made my voice heard, not just walked out silently. And then I could walk out with pride in having done the right thing and spoken up.
Not to discount your experiences. I just say mine are different, and our methods of approaching things is different. :) And that's okay--we both stand by what's right, that's what counts.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 03:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 03:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 03:36 am (UTC)I agree though that walking out is probably better than arguing if the point of dispute is one on which there can be no compromise at all. Staying within an institution that commits serious wrongs only offers support to that institution. Disagreeing with policies and yet continuing to support the organization or structure that implements them is self-defeating, and makes us part of the injustice.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 09:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 09:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 03:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 03:31 am (UTC)This is the key. Not only their own oppression, but oppression and cruelty to others. And that is the precise reason that I have refused to stay and "try to change the structure from within" in these cases.
Sometimes, though, institutions do change. The Episcopal Church has undergone radical change in the last 20 years; ordaining women was probably a much more difficult shift for them than accepting gays was. Unfortunately, they failed to understand that their position of influence in US culture and society was already eroded so badly that when they finally changed, the mere fact of that change had little impact. They are failing to speak out against the incredibly stupid injustices and destructiveness of the current administration, and that proves that I was still right in leaving.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 03:25 pm (UTC)Mind if I pass this on to a message board community I'm in and have been posting those two memes to? If you don't want me too that's ok.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-12 05:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-15 01:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-15 02:13 pm (UTC)