Hardware status report

[altivo]

It arrived Tuesday, several days ahead of the projected delivery time. Of course, I had to play with it a bit (just to make sure it was as ordered and working, I have other things that must get done before Saturday, when I can take serious time to mess with it.)

Annoyance 1: No printed manuals at all, other than the one with the warranty and FCC warnings in twelve languages. The quick startup leaflet tells you at the end to "click on the User Manual icon on your Windows XP desktop" in order to view the documentation. How nice. So if you don't order the machine with Windows XP installed, you get no manual? Wait, there's a CD-ROM in the box with Dell drivers and files. So mount that CD on another machine (can't look at it on a machine with no software installed at all) to see. Nope. All the drivers are Windows only, and there is no manual on there either. Turns out that Dell's web site does have the User Manual and the Service Information available for download. This is easy to deal with if you have other working machines around that you can use, and a connection to the web. It would be nasty for someone unable to download anything until after they got their OS installed.

I had some difficulty at first getting the machine to boot from a CD-ROM to install my preferred Linux distribution. Finally found a BIOS setting for OS installation mode that did the trick. Then the install proceeded quickly and all the hardware was recognized except, for some reason, the mouse. I had accepted the default options for standard mouse and keyboard. They sent a USB mouse, which I didn't expect, but it should work. Anyway, I hooked up the network and checked the sound, all working well. Now for Xwindows setup. This can be a can of worms for the inexperienced, admittedly. But I've done it dozens of times and I knew what drivers should work. The monitor had already been running on another Linux box, so I knew the correct scan rates to input...

Annoyance 2: XWindows refuses to run... until I discover that the mouse is causing the problem and substitute a different one.

No. No matter what I tried, startx would lock up. I could hear the relay click in the monitor as it accepted the mode, but the screen stayed black. Yet I knew the Intel VESA VGA was working because it was displaying graphics on bootup. I hunted and searched the web, no help. It was supposed to work, and work well with this hardware. My error was feeling so confident of myself that I didn't check the log X writes as it starts. Since each lock-up required a reboot (everything locked, display, keyboard, all of it) I kept forgetting to look in the log. The answer was there, very plain, when I finally looked. No mouse, corepointer device not found. Tried moving the mouse to another USB port, same result. Finally I took the PS/2 style mouse off my old Compaq and plugged it in. Switched the pointer in /dev to the psaux port and everything works beautifully. Apparently they sent me a defective mouse. I'll try it on another machine that has a working USB mouse before complaining, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was. I wasted nearly 6 hours messing with this, but that was my fault for not reading the error log. Should have caught it immediately, especially since gpm was complaining every time I booted that /dev/mouse was "not found". There is a slight possibility that BIOS settings must be altered in order for the USB mouse to work, and of course I need the manual they didn't send in order to confirm that.

In any case, the machine is up and running Linux, and running it very fast. I've never had a machine this fast. I suppose I'll get used to it all too soon. Now I get to install my extra applications that I normally use, like Thunderbird, Firefox, and OpenOffice. Then copy over my personal configuration stuff, e-mail, bookmarks, etc. That part should be easy. My old machine is still on the network, and boots up in Linux by itself even without the monitor plugged in. I found I can ssh to it, and even tell it to run X clients and use the new machine as a server for them. Moving files over by ftp or Samba should be easy enough once I identify my needs.

Edit 6 hours later: Confirmed. The mouse was DOA, refused to work on another Dell machine that had XP installed and a USB mouse. USB mouse from that machine did work on my own.

Edit next day: Dell is sending a replacement mouse. It took two e-mail messages.

Comments

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

Ooh, USB mice really irk me. There are never enough USB ports as it is, and they expect you to commit one permanently to your pointing device? Bah, I say, and neigh! ;)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Well, this machine has six USB ports, which is more than I have USB devices by far. Four on the back, two conveniently located on the front. I use a USB key to carry files around, so having a port on the front is very convenient.

However, it has a regular PS/2 mouse port on the back right next to the keyboard port. Why one would use USB keyboard and mouse utterly escapes me.

USB ports do tend to multiply on new equipment. If you have a flat panel monitor, at least the ones Dell sells, there is a USB hub installed in the monitor. If you have a USB keyboard from Dell, there is a USB hub in there too. So you get additional ports each time you plug one of those into a single port on the system.

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

You may be able to get hold of a cheap PS/2 mouse from a computer fair or something, in case the USB one goes south. I did that when my mother's new cordless one bit the dust a few weeks after delivery. 50 pence, and that only because the guy didn't have any change. Hee.

I think it was a Microsoft mouse, so we should have expected as much... I guess this is the price you gotta pay if you insist on a cool red LED that blinks and stuff. ;)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I can just use the one from the Compaq, since it is being retired, or at least shifted to server status where it will need neither mouse nor monitor. It would make a fine firewall or proxy server when we decide we need one.

But I'll make Dell replace theirs if it's defective. Sure, it was just included in the package price and probably is a five dollar item at best, but on principle I'll make them do it.

[captpackrat.livejournal.com]

The biggest reason I see for using a USB keyboard or mouse is you can hot swap them with no problems. Try that with PS/2 and there's a good chance you'll end up with a fried motherboard.

And you can use a hub to extend the reach of a USB keyboard or mouse without running into signalling problems like you can have with PS/2 extentions. The keyboard and mouse on one of my machines at home are plugged into the monitor, which gets me to about 6 feet from the computer.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Well, neither is a very useful reason for me. I never hot swap stuff that isn't supposed to be hot swapped, and I can't think of a time I ever wanted to hot swap a mouse or keyboard anyway.

[calydor.livejournal.com]

In the last couple of years, USB has gone the way floppy disks did in the early 90's, and that is quickly downhill. I'd recommend you hook up known working USB peripherals to your new machine to make sure the USB ports on it work at all; trust me, they very often don't, and no manual is going to fix that.

Now, speaking of manuals, this is also a common complaint. If you run into a problem trying to install XP, too, you're -stuck- with no manual. The businesses argue it's cheaper to send stuff out on the CD, cuts packing costs, and I can see the logic in that - but then at least put the manual IN PLAIN SIGHT on the CD root.

Good luck with the new toy, hope you find it to your liking.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

The USB ports seem to be OK. They work with my flash drive/key. But yes, I have it on my list to test all six of them.

[pioneer11.livejournal.com]

Sounds good, though I haven't really gone Linux...yet. Windows XP
has been rock solid for me and after years of playing with Windows
naughty bits I'm just sorta into "it just works!!!" @.@

Still, what kind of Linux are you using?

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Slackware. I prefer to be in control of the configuration, rather than have someone else deciding for me what I need. They are usually wrong.

And that's the problem with Windows in general. All those security issues, all those patches, necessitated by Microsoft's inherent need to provide features I don't want, don't use, and can't turn off easily in their bloated product line. Secret this, secret that, they are so full of secrets that even their own tech people don't understand each other.

The current move with Windows "Vista" (I think that's the code name) to put Microsoft squarely in control of digital rights and entertainment is the last straw. No more pennies for Microsoft.

[calydor.livejournal.com]

Vista is the official release name, Longhorn was the codename. Just FYI.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Whatever. I'll not be touching the turkey, and I hope a lot of other people, even the sheep, similarly decline when they see how it will put a crimp in their music and video habits.

With reference to your previous comment about having problems installing XP when the hardware manual is only on the HD, that's not quite the problem here. If you order XP, it comes preinstalled, ready to plug in and go. That's how Gary's machine came last winter. They did a good job on that one. I imagine they sell only the tiniest percentage of their machines with no OS and the HD unformatted, so it's not surprising that they haven't thought it through as carefully.

[calydor.livejournal.com]

And the few that would choose not to have XP pre-installed, then, must be considered to be intuitive enough to get whatever they want installed anyway. Makes a wee bit of sense; about as much sense as you'll ever get from Dell.

Just promise me you'll ask around among your friends before ever calling Dell Tech Support. I know you're supposed to have a lot of patience, but from what I hear, talking to those guys would make the Devil himself reconsider ever letting people into Hell; it's not bad enough.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Oh I have years of experience dealing with tech support. Generally I frighten the front line in a matter of seconds and then get escalated to someone who knows what they're talking about. But I also avoid it when at all possible because it is so irritating. Normally I know a great deal more than the first two or three people I get to speak with, and even when I can cut through them quickly, it's just a stupid waste of time.

I do use e-mail support occasionally, which is equally frustrating, but I mostly do it to irritate THEM, when I already know the answer and want to see if they do.

Gary has dealt with Dell support, and generally got good answers from them though he agrees it takes a lot of patience. When I'm available I can often find the answer faster than he can get it from them. Some recent experiences he has had with Symantec support, however, make Dell look pretty good. Symantec support couldn't hold up a sheet of paper, much less anything of weight. I'm very glad that Linux doesn't require antivirus software.

[corelog.livejournal.com]

Well, well done! :)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Thanks but there wasn't that much to it. In fact I feel incredibly dumb for wasting so much time on such a silly thing as that mouse. Now confirmed by simply swapping for another USB mouse. My configuration settings were correct, the cheap mouse they supplied was dead. Probably suffocated on the way over from China where it was born.

[bariki.livejournal.com]

Manuals are for n00bs. Sorry, I just wanted to say that! ^)^

Besides, did you think that a _user_ manual would actually contain any useful information about the guts of your computer? Hrm, unlikely for a Dell.

Glad that the new box is living sin-free now. I hope that you reclaimed the hidden Dell diagnostics partition on your HDD as free space and ext3'd it?

[altivo.livejournal.com]

A user manual does tell you how to get the case open, which with Dells can be a Chinese puzzle box affair. No screwdriver needed, but you better know where to press and pull.

It also tells you what the BIOS setup options are, and this machine has many that I have never seen before and needed to understand.

This information is indeed included in the manual that I had to download.

I did not delete the diagnostics partition because I'm not yet sure what's in it or whether I want it. It only takes up five cylinders, so the space is nothing on a drive this size, but having it occupy one of the four available partition slots is a nuisance.

Since some Compaq computers can't do plug and play initialization unless they have that partition intact, I didn't mess with it yet.

[bariki.livejournal.com]

I guess that I take my knowledge for granted on such things.. my bad.

The diagnostics partition is NOT required for booting/PnP operations. Nor are the tools on it of much use to you when you run Linux...

What do you mean by 'one of the four available partition slots'? Just use one primary partition and an extended partition - then you can have as many partitions as you think necessary. The old four partition limit became meaningless, even in the Linux world, some time ago.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Not entirely meaningless. If I want multiboot, with FreeDOS, FreeBSD, and Linux, it is simplest to use a separate partition for each. Sure, it's possible to avoid that, but that's the method I prefer. Linux does like to have a separate swap partition, too.

[bariki.livejournal.com]

Err, no - that's not my point. An extended partition can contain a multitude of logical volumes. There are currently seven logical partitions in the extended partition on my main computer. I dunno if anything with the letters 'DOS' in it will like that, but the BSDs and newer Linux kernels shouldn't care about such trivial things.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I know what an extended partition is, or at least thought I did. My last understanding was that you could not boot from them. In other words, PBRs written to the virtual partitions within an extended partition are not accessible for booting. And no, DOS systems don't understand extended partitions. Linux and presumably FreeBSD understand them and use them in their own ways (differently from what Windows does) but the limitations on booting have to do with BIOSes and bootstrap loaders themselves.

I may be out of date on this, but that's certainly the way it was last time I bothered to look into it in detail.

[bariki.livejournal.com]

As long as you're using a modern boot loader (like grub, windows boot loader) and it resides in the MBR, then you can indeed boot from a logical partition. My linux distro on this machine boots from (hd0,2) which is a logical partition, and windows from multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT, which is just MS talk for (hd0,1).

It just makes life easier, and gives you more flexibility in partitioning. And, for the record, DOS (certainly MS-DOS) can understand extended partitions but I am not sure about how many volumes inside the extended partition that it can handle. My DOS knowledge has kinda degraded as it hasn't been used in a long time. x.x

Anyway, enough with this banter. I trust that it's all still running fine regardless?

[altivo.livejournal.com]

The Windows NT 4.x loader wouldn't boot from an extended partition and that was the last time I even looked at it. So I'm undoubtedly behind the times. I normally use Lilo, but because I've usually had to dual boot with some version of Windows, I don't replace the MBR loader with Lilo. Microsoft always treats that as a virus infection and makes constant annoyances about it that have to be overridden. Now that I have no Microsoft on the system, I suppose I could reconsider. It's just long-time habit.

Grub has never worked for me at all. Invariably I get some BIOS complaint about 'invalid checksums' that keeps it from booting. Lilo takes a bit of fiddling if you change kernels or move files around, but it always works.

Yes, the machine is up and running nicely. You'll think I'm easily amused, but having functional ACPI is a pleasure. My last PC was so old that you still had to turn the power off manually. Other than the mouse, which Dell is replacing, the only problem I still have is the DVD setup. The drive is working for CD-ROMs, but I haven't been able to play a DVD yet. I'm sure that's a software issue of some sort, I've never messed with DVDs before. It's not a high priority, anyway.

[bariki.livejournal.com]

ntldr has changed a lot in that time, but since you don't use it, who cares? :P

I have the exact opposite experience - LiLo was a pain in the arse for me, whereas grub made everything much simpler. Heh, the joys of different experiences in the field.

ACPI, eh? 'Tivo has moved into the same power mangement era as us - yay!

DVD playback was a total mare for me when I first use FC4 - X just bitched and bitched when I tried to play a DVD - but then I updated xine with yum and suddenly all became right with the world. Doubtless there's someone else that'll read this that knows far more about such things than I, but as it's not a 'critical' piece of functionality, I suppose that it can wait for a while.