Dwelling place amusement

[altivo]

Well, enough people have done that "Where should you live?" meme now that I can poke fun without naming names and none of you should take it personally.

The truth is, I'm greatly amused by the number of folks, especially young urban/suburban types, who either come up with the rural or hermit in the wilderness results or claim to want them. Especially in cases where I know the individuals involved well enough to know that they could not easily live without: cell phones, internet, computers, computer or console games, television, movies, electricity, or fast food/take out food/frozen convenience food.

I live on the edge between the small towns and open farmlands. It's true. You can't get cable TV or broadband internet here. The voice lines don't even work reliably, especially in stormy, wet, or extreme cold weather. Electricity is usually on but frequently goes off for anywhere from a few seconds to a few hours. The nearest fast food place (a McDeath's) is only four miles away, but that's a lot of gas or a lot of bicycle-pedaling to go very often. For anything else, you have to travel ten to twenty miles. Net connectivity depends on the voice lines and dialup, so there's no downloading music or video junk. There is no natural gas for heating or cooking. Everything is either electric and subject to unpredictable periods of non-functionality, or relies on bottled propane gas (costly) or a woodstove (labor intensive) in order to make heat to cook or keep you warm.

Now, when you talk about becoming a hermit in the middle of Montana or up in the mountains, you go a couple of orders of magnitude more remote. Medical and emergency care is out of reach. You may need a wind generator to have electricity. It may be a hundred miles to the fast food restaurant or at least the equivalent in effort because of the ups and downs. Weather is more severe too. You will probably have to cut, split, and cure your own firewood, and learn to use it frugally. Or be dependent on trading other services to your neighbors in return for firewood that they've prepared. The same goes for food. Successful gardening is hard work. I've done enough of it to know. Preserving garden vegetables so you have food in January and February is more work, if you even know how. You can't rely on freezers alone if your electricity is unreliable. Or what if the freezer mechanism fails? So you have to learn canning, preserving, and drying food, which is also very labor intensive. Curing and preserving meat is even more tricky, and fraught with dangers that can kill you. Botulism, for instance, comes from the Latin word for sausage: botulinum. That's because the Romans first recognized it in people who had eaten improperly cured sausages. I've been doing food preservation and preparation for almost half a century, and I won't risk meat other than by freezing.

Can you sew well enough to at least repair your own clothing adequately? Can you cook? Including making bread or biscuits from scratch? Can you operate a radio well enough to obtain help in an emergency? Can you live without all those amenities you take for granted? Can you repair your own vehicle well enough to at least get it to take you to the nearest real mechanic, who may be 20 or 50 miles away?

Sure, the life of a mountain man may seem romantic and full of beautiful scenery, but the truth is mostly you don't have time to look up and enjoy it. In the summer you brave mosquitoes and black flies and work sixteen hours a day in order to put by enough food and fuel to survive the winter on. In the winter you spend all your energy trying to keep from freezing, starving, or getting scurvy. And in truth, a lot of those I see professing to want rural or wilderness existence complain about being bored out of their skulls now when they live in suburbs or small towns. Nuh-uh. It won't work folks. Time for a reconsideration.

Comments

[hgryphon.livejournal.com]

I got the "rowhouse" result, so none of that applies to me, though I can survive in all of the elements you just described as far as remote/hermit is concerned... And just because you're remote doesn't mean you can't have cable/broadband. Take the tiny city of Glide, Oregon. The population is roughly 800, but they have one of the best cable broadband services anywhere, because some rich guy semi-retired and wanted broadband, so he had his own cable service constructed out there with a branch off the line that paralells Interstate 5... So it's all relative...

And wouldn't it be beneficial to have to bike four miles to get to McDonalds? ;)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

And wouldn't it be beneficial to have to bike four miles to get to McDonalds? ;)

Probably not as beneficial as doing without McDonald's would be.

Glide, OR is small town, rather than rural or wilderness. And yeah, small towns now often do have broadband and CATV. You can get satellite TV in a lot of places too, though in mountainous or heavily forested regions it can be problematic. (As it is where I live. People who put houses up in the middle of old cornfields do fine with it. People who have their houses nestled among the trees, as I do, can't get it.) The nearest town to me is Marengo, population 3000 or so. Yes, they have broadband and CATV. It goes to the city limits and that's it.

I'm really not disparaging people's wishes, just suggesting that they need to think it through in a lot more detail. Some of the biggest "I hate people" fanatics I know are in fact highly dependent on human neighbors and communities for their lifestyle. They just take it all for granted.

[hgryphon.livejournal.com]

I think everyone takes many things for granted...

[songcoyote.livejournal.com]

A fascinating and very funny look at some of the challenges you described can be found in the 70s BBC sitcom The Good Life (distributed in the US as Good Neighbors). In the show, a solidly middle-class couple decides to rough it and convert their suburban home into a model of self-sufficiency, with animals, farmland, and essentially no money. Their neighbors, one of whom is staunchly conservative and a social snob, provide a stark and amusing contrast. It's one of the better sitcoms... ever, really.

Anyway, the Goods (that's the self-sufficient couple's last name) find out just how much work it is to keep themselves going - and how precarious a position it can be when even one aspect of the whole thing fails.

I am not a hermit type by any stretch of the imagination; I might long to live a little more rurally, but only so I could have more land to roam on than the tiny lot I've got now (glad as I am to have it!). I relish the trappings of civilization far too much to give them up easily :)

Thanks for the thoughts, though. Have a great weekend!

Light and laughter,
SongCoyote

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Nice to hear from you. I was beginning to worry about you. :)

I haven't seen Good Neighbors, though in my generation we had Green Acres which often poked humorous fun at the same kind of things.

You understand how much you prefer the amenities provided by some degree of population and culture (as do I, as much as I adore the wilderness...I still know I'd much rather not live without electricity even though I do know how to manage it, for instance.)

I just thought that some people filled with idealistic notions need to do some more careful thinking. I'm reminded of Thoreau, expounding away about how much better it is to live alone in the woods, while his mom came to visit every day and brought him a hamper full of goodies. ;P

[songcoyote.livejournal.com]

I highly recommend Good Neighbors - so much so that I'd be glad to ship you the DVDs to borrow as I know I'd get them back from you safe and sound :) Not that you have a lot of time, I imagine, for sitting around watching TV (especially now that Spring is just around the corner).

Thoreau's vision might be tainted from one perspective - in that he was supplied by a hamperful of goodies - but he was still pretty isolated in the woods, which in itself is a powerful thing. It might be a little harder to get the sort of privation-based visions that some of the harsher traditions (e.g., Native American shamanic practices) go for, but I can certainly understand that being cut off from most of humanity could cause one to look inward and then outward at the natural world.

Hmm... too much deep thought for the moment. Gotta go play :D

Light and laughter,
SongCoyote

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the offer, but not necessary. If it's on DVD, I can get it through Netflix. I'll put it on my list there.

I admit to being fascinated by the Native American vision quest practices, though I don't think I want to play with some of their methods. I'm afraid we (and they) have lost a chunk of the spirituality and wisdom that lay behind all that.

[songcoyote.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well, having your lands taken and your people...

Wait, I only have a certain perspective on that and no place to talk and I'm not doing a damn thing about it, so I'm going to shut the hell up.

I will say this: I've met too many people who call themselves shaman but don't really seem to understand what it means. Not that I do, mind you, but I have a better idea than many, and I know it's a path I'd rather not walk and am grateful never called me.

I'll stick with being the priest of my coven ;)

Light and laughter,
SongCoyote

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yes to all that. I'm game to try to be my own shaman, but only that much. And since taking up those reins automatically includes being responsible for others as well, in ways I can't even begin to comprehend from where I am...

You're right, of course.

[vimsig.livejournal.com]

I agree with so much of your statement. We live somewhere between remote and far-flung rural and most of my time between March and October is spent preparing wood for the next winter season and growing vegetables. Winter months are spent sewing, spinning, knitting, baking.

Now your harsh isolation scenario and my living fact is that I do have broadband and phoneline; the leccy does intermittently break service but there are candles, a wood fire for a fry up. The leccy is never (touch wood) off so long as to start the freezers defrosting but I feel a generator will be the next investment.

As for being bored out of our skulls? - no, not an inch of it, too busy and happy to have time for boredom.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

You and I are of the same or nearly the same generation, I think. :)

I was thinking more of the American environment than Europe, which has rather different parameters in most areas than what one finds here. Your local environment is probably similar in terms of population density and amenities to my own, though I don't know how close the climate might be. We do have power outages up to 24 hours or so at times, which in winter is just inconvenient, but in summer does make you worry about the freezer. And we do have a generator, which is clumsy to use but at least will let us cycle the freezer and refrigerator a bit and pump water for the animals and ourselves. We have had to use it, too.

We don't split our own wood, because it is easy to have it delivered precut. Development and land clearing are going much too fast and too near by, but that means that firewood is easy to come by. The native trees are mostly oak and maple, which are hard enough to be efficient and clean burning.

We bake our own bread, and prepare most food from raw ingredients because we prefer to, not because we have to. But our environment is, as I've said, on the edge between the small towns and the large open farms.

[vimsig.livejournal.com]

Yes - I think me 'n' thee are very similar in both age and life style. Well met Altivo!

Development is a swear word - the word on the street('laugh- make that 'single-track') is that this island is expected to expand rapidly in terms of population when they build the new bridge to connect to the mainland

Food? - Thank goodness for pulse soups and home made bread - our staples during the working week.

[nekura-ca.livejournal.com]

I took that test a while ago, and got firmly downtown, and will freely admit that I couldn't be dragged away from it for love or money. I've been camping, and it's fun, for the week, but I need my fix of wireless broadband streaming video, cellphones, and twenty-four hour grocery stores. ^_^

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I had to think about why it gave me small town rather than rural farm, and though I can be quite happy in either place, I understand why it happened.

I'm seeing folks declaring that they want to be as far from civilization as they can, though, when I know that they in fact are quite dependent on it. :)

[chibiabos.livejournal.com]

Having lived in a high mountain cabin for almost a year, I can say I'm mostly prepared. I loathe phones and cell phones. If I thought I would never have a chance at the peace and privacy of living in the woods, I'd give up completely on life. I wear clothes that are comfortable or rugged like jeans or flannel, not what's in style.

Money's the only real obstacle, and its the same one from letting me get any place of my own.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Just so you remember that you are still dependent on those of us who keep the civilization running. I was mainly pointing at the 19 and 20 year olds who are angry with their parents and equate that with being angry at the world, yet simply have no appreciation for the amount of "stuff" they rely on that won't work in isolation. It's easy to forget the invisible infrastructure that makes something like the internet or an electronic game work.

[chibiabos.livejournal.com]

I'm 19 or 20 ... plus a few. :p

I don't feel I owe much to the many 'providers' of stuff to society. I don't feel any debt of grattitude to Wal-Mart or large corporations, specifically, nor the large factory open-range ranching operations.

I'd have to have some strong financial resources to consider moving anywhere, but if I had some magical way of maintaining a good and dependable income regardless of where I live, it would be as remote as I could get. Remember, I desire to start a home for abandoned/neglected wolves and wolfdogs ... I consider human neighbors far to much of a risk, especially since a county with a high population is more likely to pass anti-wolfdog ordinances.

My biggest problem living with Covy was that I was never 'in charge' ... I was always staying with someone, and never had authority to say whether she was allowed in the house, etc. This lack of control in my environment was very frustrating and detrimental to my morale. I don't think I'm really cut out to handle roommates for long, nor a community of "eww! nature! dirty! and not real!" type folk.

[calydor.livejournal.com]

Keep in mind that here in Denmark, we have 100% satellite/cable/DSL coverage. ;) I never said I wanted to be a hundred miles from the nearest neighbour, but half a mile would suit me just fine.

This house is already heated by bottled propane, the hot water supply by oil, and I cook on a gas stove. The electricity is a professional's nightmare, but I've got it rigged to work. A backup generator and UPS solves most problems with it coming on and off, and again, there's no place in Denmark where it can't be fixed by calling someone out to run new wires.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I was aiming mainly at the Americans. Europe doesn't offer the kind of isolation you can still find here, for the most part, though I suspect if you get well up into some of the mountain ranges there are indeed issues with the electricity and communications.

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

*giggles* Spot on there, my mane man.

I haven't seen/taken this particular meme, but I know my domesticated dog self better than to think I'd ever be comfortable out in the wilds. Cable internet, halfway decent public transport links and 24hr minimarkets all the way for me! C. familiaris pridez represent! Etc. ;)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

We never had cable even when we lived in Chicago, so that doesn't matter to us at all. I think the thing we missed most, and continue to miss, is having real restaurants on tap when we felt like it. We used to have dozens within a short walk, now it's at least a ten mile drive to get to anything fairly decent. I'm not talking about snooty, high-priced places either.

Shortly after we moved in here (can it be almost 8 years ago?) we had our first power outage. Lights and heat were out for about 24 hours and the wind was gusting to gale force and above. It was a bit of an awakening as we realized we had no oil lamps and in fact, no matches in the house to start the woodstove nor any wood to fuel it. That was all corrected very quickly.

I don't mind isolation for periods of time, but I know from experience that I don't want to spend all my energy on survival issues, which is what happens when you try to live that way permanently. Even then, it's not computer games and commercial entertainment I would miss, as is going to be the case with the younger set, but rather time to read, write, and create. The reality of the hard work required to survive on your own tends to be forgotten in the romance of unspoiled views and magnificent solitude we build up in our minds. The truth of it, though, is that you never get to look at the stars or the wildlife but in tiny glimpses because your head is down all the time making sure you have adequate food and shelter.

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

*nods* I know myself well enough, in this instance anyway, to know my weaknesses. And, quite aside from the various nagging infirmities which would make a Mutt with a wood axe a menace to everyone BUT the logs... I know 'simple living' would be far too complicated and demotivating for me to hack. I don't even enjoy fabulous views very much!

Not that I'm particularly proud, or ashamed, of being Mr Wimpy Urban Dogfox. I'm not tough enough to be all wildernessy wolfy, but hey, that's me. Folks with a romanticised view of country living baffle me a little, because I've never shared that view.

If I were in that sort of mood, I'd make some kind of crack about the relative numbers of dog and wolf furs/kin/totems...

[heavens-steed.livejournal.com]

I didn't take that quiz, so I don't know what I would have got, but I might fall under one of those suburbia kids who wants to go rural. The only reason why I would want to live in a rural setting is so I could have horses and because I just love the quiet and beauty of nature. But there is a lot of work and all the details you laid here about rural living are eye-opening. Actually, I've always been concerned about how far away everything would be, even the most basic conveniencies like a grocier store and fast-food, although we'd all be better off without the fast-food.

I envy you for all the things you know how to do. As one of those worthless whippersnappers, I must say that I hate the fact that I am not that self-efficient. I can't even take care of myself in the world I live in now, much less out in the sticks. Very pathetic.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Well you're still kinda young to know all that stuff, truly. It gives you a list of the things you need to be aware of, though, before you try to go rural. :)

Actually, suburban is quite far enough for a horse or two. You only need to be really rural if you are going to run a brood farm or boarding stable. Many semi-rural areas permit horses, within restrictions such as a limit on the number of horses per land unit. (Typically around here, they might let you have two horses on three acres. That's called an "estate" subdivision, and is not considered a farm or agricultural land.)

Of course, suburban or small town life is usually within easy reach of boarding stables too, so you can have a horse without actually owning a lot of land.

Getting by without fast food restaurants and all night groceries is a good starting goal. Those can be scarce even on the edges of suburbia. Small towns more often have Aunt Minnie's Diner type one-off restaurants, and those close down at night and on Sunday.

[zenicurean.livejournal.com]

I agree there one hundred per cent. Living in relative isolation is damn hard work and not everyone is cut out for it. What little outdoors living I've ever done has convinced me that whatever it is I want to live in, it has to be 1) as urban as possible and 2) as coastal as possible. Granted, I've only done a tiny short stint in Lapland, a great deal of it in comfortable heated barracks, but Lapland is basically a large swathe of snow for much of the year. Two weeks of living in a tent in the middle of a forest was enough to make it incredibly clear I'm very much a city person.

(Of course, technically I'm a farm boy, but only technically.)