No surprise here

[altivo]

Snagged from quickcasey:

Take the quiz:
what type of car are you?

Hybrid
you're a hippie, you want to save the environment

Quizzes by myYearbook.com -- the World's Biggest Yearbook!


So why didn't I buy one? I probably will, next time. I'm very conservative about new designs and like to see them proven long enough to have a maintenance and safety record before I buy into them. Other than the added cost, which went beyond my budget, I have two concerns with the hybrids. First, I'm not sure there are enough trained mechanics or service technicians yet. I am no longer interested in doing my own auto maintenance. Second, I'm particularly worried about the lifespan and ecological impact of all those batteries full of heavy metal or toxic ions.

Comments

[chibiabos.livejournal.com]

You did realize there is an 8 year / 80,000 warranty on the batteries and hybrid components with just the basic warranty?

And hybrids have been out for 10 years, not sure how long it takes for them to be 'proven' to you.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

It's not just time, it takes a certain number in regular use and maintenance. For the first part of that time, they were little more than a very expensive concept car.

Neither Toyota nor Honda have dealerships that are conveniently accessible to me for maintenance, either. I don't think we are anywhere near the point where you can or should take a hybrid to the corner garage mechanic for any major work. Ford now has a hybrid version of the Escape that looks good on paper but is too new to have much of a record. Saturn has a brand-new hybrid VUE as well, new for 2007. Those are what I really referred to in terms of getting a maintenance and safety record down.

As for the warranty and recycling claims, see what I said farther down. I take a very jaundiced view of corporate promises, and with what I believe is good reason.

[chibiabos.livejournal.com]

AAA membership helps, and I still need to get myself in (especially since I'm still driving a junker and it looks as though my credit won't let me buy a new car anytime soon), and as soon as my housing situation is sorted out, I will (and will also get myself a secured credit card).

Cars are expensive, but I'm not sure how expensive you think hybrids are over "normal" cars. A Toyota Prius or Honda Civic Hybrid are around $22,000. Its not cheap, no, but only a few thousand over what a non-hybrid Toyota Camry or Honda Accord would be (and get roughly twice the MPG as either). $4,000ish is not pocket change, but for some reason, my father and a lot of people seem to have it in mind that a hybrid costs on the order of $40,000 which is wholly untrue (and they have never cost that much, and I don't know where that urban legend came from ..... probably a horsepower-pimping, MPG-phobic Ford/Chevy/Dodge/etc. manufacturer). And if you had bought a Prius, you could have gotten a $3,100 tax credit ... Toyota has sold too many hybrids, however, and that tax credit gets slashed in half at the end of September, and in less than a year, it will disappear entirely. Honda's Civic hybrid still gets its full $2,100 and there's no falloff in sight until Honda sells the magic number of hybrids.

If I had the money (and/or credit rating) to get a new car, I wouldn't take any car to a corner or garage mechanic. I'm done with being ripped off, and every one I've had (except a friend I already know, who has himself in jail now) has ripped me off. I don't trust them anyway.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I'm aware of the prices. Remember that I intended to, and did, purchase this vehicle with cash. No loan. The difference between what I spent and what a Ford Escape Hybrid would have cost was enough that I'd have had to take at least a small loan rather than completely empty my reserve cushion. Tax credits don't always help immediately, as you must know even more than I do. I don't make enough to be paying that much in taxes anyway, unless the tax credit could be applied to my property tax, which of course it can't.

The cost of getting a Prius or Civic to the dealership for even normal maintenance would be a day off from work. That's how far away the dealers are from home and work for me. I value my vacation time too much to use it for that. The same is really true for Saturn, though the Saturn hybrid is much lower in price (can be had for under $20,000.) The Saturn is also brand new, with no track record, and uses a different technology than the others, so may not qualify for the tax credit thing at all. The Ford dealer is so close to where I work that I could walk from there to work if I had to (not nice in winter though...no sidewalks) but they provide courtesy drop-off and pick-up in town as well. So I can leave the car there and they will drive me to work, and pick me up from work when it's ready. I considered the Escape Hybrid, but simply did not want the burden of monthly car payments. Nor did I want to wait two more years to accumulate the cash, as the Jeep had started to need frequent costly repairs.

[chibiabos.livejournal.com]

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid_new.shtml

The 2007 Saturn Vue Green Line hybrid gets a $650 tax credit. Its much lower, I presume, because (like the other truck/SUV hybrids) it doesn't get as good in gas mileage as the Prius or Civic hybrids.

The 2006-07 Ford Escape Hybrid 2WDs get a $2600 tax credit, the 4WD gets $1950 as does the 2006-07 Mercury Mariner Hybrid 4WD.

The Honda Insight can be had for under $20k as well, but that's for the stick shift version.

[nipper.livejournal.com]

According to the press from the hybrid manufacturers (Toyota and Honda at least), the recycling cost of the batteries is built into the purchase price. They promise to collect and recycle the batteries after 10 years or so when they are finally exhausted.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Given the track record of large corporations on delivering long term promises during my lifetime, I am not inclined to give them much credibility. Here in the US, people lose their health care coverage, their promised pensions, and even their jobs despite such promises, and it is happening more, not less, as time goes on. Management will make such promises when it is expedient to do so, but the truth is that most of those involved in daily decision making are not running on a long term plan, but only very short horizons. When the time comes to deliver something promised ten years ago, they don't hesitate to refuse and say they can't afford it, or "that was then, this is now."

[nipper.livejournal.com]

I certainly wouldn't trust American companies, especially Ford and GM at the moment given ho thay are tanking, but I would trust the Japanese ;)

In Europe car manufacturers are starting to design cars for recycling too, as legislation making them liable is likely, making them build in the cost up front. It's just America trailing as usual.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Oh I agree that America typically lags on this sort of issue. It's a result of Victorian era notions of capitalism without social responsibility added to a general societal myopia that often grates on me to the point of despair.

There were very practical reasons why I did not want to select a Japanese vehicle, though, even considering this particular issue. (And I haven't been all that happy with the policies and attitudes of Japanese corporations, as far as that goes. Sony has been an embarrassment to the human race lately. Toyota has been entangled repeatedly in worker harrassment and sexism issues here in the US.)

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

Yus indeedy, batteries are recycled and I believe the Prius and civic hybrids are now 99% recyclable.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Almost everything is recyclable... IF the time, energy, and money is spent to recycle it. The unfortunate truth is, at least here in the US, very little of it actually gets recycled. We are at the point where some businesses recognize a growing public concern with the issue, but they are only willing to give lip service to it. They may, for instance, accept used or worn out products for "recycling" without actually doing so. The idea is that it makes people feel better, and it doesn't really matter that they just dump the stuff in a landfill anyway.

Of course, certain types of recycling actually pay off with a profit bonus, such as removing gold from obsolete circuit boards. But when you look at the processes that are often used to do that, they produce additional toxic wastes that only compound the problem, rather than solving anything.

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

Also the computer junk and circuit boards are being recycled here into what they call E-Wood

http://www.closetheloop.com.au/ewood/index.htm

It's good stuff :)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Sounds like an excellent idea. But what are the byproducts and wastes that come from manufacturing it? And what does it cost compared to ordinary wood? Those are the issues that determine whether it really works.

Recycled plastic substitutes for wood are available here, though I think most are made of recycled packaging materials rather than circuit boards. They rate high on durability but are heavier by the foot than ordinary wood. Most unfortunately, they also cost quite a bit more, so they aren't used as much as they should be.

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

I saw the tv special on how this works, but I can't quite remember it, however the gasses from the process were filtered and as far as by products I can't remember what they did with that.

[pioneer11.livejournal.com]

RAW MUSCLE!

Too tired to cut and paste.