altivo: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
[personal profile] altivo
Midwestern humorist Garrison Keillor has issued what is perhaps the most political piece of writing I have ever seen him put forth, on the subject of the travesty committed by Congress and Dubya this week with the legal right of habeas corpus. Here is what he had to say. I, for one, agree with every word of it.

Date: 2006-10-22 02:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobowolf.livejournal.com
But how else can we protect ourselves from the communist menace russian nuclear threat terrorists?

What's that I hear in the distance? It sounds like somebody flushing civil rights down the toilet! Can you hear it too?

Date: 2006-10-22 02:30 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Oh, I've been hearing that sound ever since Richard Nixon's administration. I suspect it has actually been audible since at least the McCarthy era, but I first really noticed it around 1970 or so. I think the Kent State Riots were about the time I became really aware of it.

Niemoller's famous quote about how "they" came for the Jews, then for the homosexuals, then for the catholics, etc. applies accurately here. But it is obvious that the vast majority of US voters are so smug and apathetic that they really never will understand the implications until it is too late and the storm troopers are pounding on their own doors.

Date: 2006-10-22 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lobowolf.livejournal.com
There's always an excuse, and government is a tricky little monster that will do everything it can to trick you into giving away your civil rights.

"Oh come on, you really won't miss it. It's not like it's anything tangible. It won't be like anything is missing at all."

It rather reminds me of a young sorcerer giving his soul over to some evil demon in exchange for power. It seems like a good deal at first...trading over tiny bits of yourself in exchange for some prize, until at some point, the evil demon wields complete power over you. We all know what happens in the end, don't we?

And there's always an unseen enemy.."The Jews," "The communists," "The terrorists," "The heathens,"..."The XXXX"

It's the oldest power trick in the book.

"Oh, loyal subjects, you must grant all your power to me (fill in the blank of despot ruler, evil king, sorcerer, whatever), or else you will all be consumed by the (fill in the blank of whatever horrid creature, demon, dragon, unseen power, etc.)."

All is lost when individuals can no longer think for themselves.

Boiled frog syndrome

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 03:32 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Boiled frog syndrome

From: [identity profile] lobowolf.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 03:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Boiled frog syndrome

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 10:16 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 10:04 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 10:14 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-22 03:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com
The insane thing is, from what I can tell Bush's suspension of habeas corpus is much more legally valid than the one Lincoln enforced. Bush went through all the proper motions and ran the thing through the legislature.

Now what I'd like to see is whether the Courts will end up supporting Bush because they feel the US is threatened by a rebellion or an invasion, because those are the only two cases where the Constitution allows habeas corpus to be suspended.

Date: 2006-10-22 03:15 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
It seems very unlikely to me (and to actual legal experts whose opinion is worth much more than mine) that even Bush's pet Supreme Court will allow this to stand. The difficulty is in getting the thing before them so that they can rule on it. Obviously, the country is threatened by neither internal rebellion nor enemy invasion. The wording of the law is such that even actual citizens have no rights until they are proven to be citizens to the satisfaction of the executive branch. This gives them a way to detain absolutely anyone if they really want to.

The last draft of the law I actually read included that bogus clause that the Republicans in Congress keep inserting lately, the one that says the courts have no ability to rule on the constitutionality of this bill. It's hard to understand why they do that, being supposedly the "strong supporters" of the constitution that they claim to be. Obviously, Congress cannot exempt itself from the authority of the Court. That is clearly written into the constitution itself.

Date: 2006-10-22 10:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com
Have no ability to rule on the constitutionality of bills? What? And the media is not relentlessly pointing and laughing at them for even proposing that? Well, there goes any shadow of credibility this "public discourse has a liberal bias" thing ever could've possibly had. In a more informed democracy, doing something that pathetically silly and dangerous would probably cost Republicans the election.

But, of course, we're talking about a country where Joseph Darby alerts his superiors about the abuse of prisoners in Abu Ghraib, and then later on has to actually be taken into military protective care because everyone in his community hates his guts and pours death threats at him and his family.

It's not like a healthy, regular habit of kicking the Constitution in the face wasn't already started by the very first Presidents, but this is just uncommonly clumsy. And, apparently, effective.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 10:52 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-22 03:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soanos.livejournal.com
Ehhh... I am speechless. Is this actually happening?

Oh, dear.

I think I'd better stay here in Finland then :P

Date: 2006-10-22 03:17 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
It has happened. The law passed both houses of congress and was signed by would-be imperial dictator G. W. Bush himself on Tuesday.

Date: 2006-10-22 09:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com
I actually find it a bit odd Finnish media hasn't reported anything about this. Seems it's too busy mocking American foreign policy to concentrate on American domestic policy.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] soanos.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 04:53 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] calydor.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 05:20 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 11:07 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 02:06 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-22 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kamodragon.livejournal.com
Tell Me Tivo, where can I escape to with my mate?

Date: 2006-10-22 10:22 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
I wish I knew. If you have sufficient education and marketable skills, then at your age most English speaking countries will take you. New Zealand has what I'd call the most attractive government position at the moment, but of course that could change. Australia and the UK have tended to mimic the US, though not quite as extremely, and I believe Australia is still hostile to gay immigrants. Canada looks decent overall, though I don't like the direction their last election took. From most of the reports I've heard, the African nations are best avoided. Scandinavia is attractive, but I don't know what immigration policies the various nations there have, and you'd need to learn another language (even though English is widely spoken, you wouldn't want to remain unable to communicate with everyone you'd encounter.)

Date: 2006-10-22 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com
And if one happens to pick Sweden, the social security network will be awesome, but one will then have to tackle with up to an 18% shadow unemployment, a healthy 54% aggregate tax rate, and Social Democratic election campaigns funded by local trade unions that are not only ten times more expensive per capita than Bush's presidential campaign was, but will also ensure that public schools distribute introductory leaflets about socialism.

Although, of course, whether that's a bad thing or not depends entirely on one's politics. Furthermore, their governments start wawering when it turns out a minister missed paying her annual TV licence fees back in the stone age, which is actually far more encouraging than it sounds.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 11:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 01:36 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] soanos.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 04:57 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 02:20 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-22 11:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cabcat.livejournal.com
Only in Tassie, there was an interesting article about how the Gay/Lesbian community in the area of the Mardi Gras in Sydney had become less and less because the integration into the wider community had grown so much.

Rural areas are still a bit cagey, city areas it's not too bad. Sydney and Melbourne are probably the most accepted.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 11:44 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-22 11:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kamodragon.livejournal.com
Thanks for your opinion..
I am fluent in two languages, spanish (castellano not mexican) read. write/ speak and can understang about 60-75% of french and italian (parents speak several languages). I can travel as an American or a Spaniard (passport wise) so I think I am good for a few places. I have considered Canada however I have not followed their politics too closeley. My family is primarily in Spain and Canada but also in Morroco and a few other areas in smaller numbers. I didn't consider New Zealand so I will have to look into that. I think I have a variety of marketable skills however lack the paper degree.. We will see either way. Thanks Tivo!

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 11:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] kamodragon.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 12:20 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-22 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tinbender.livejournal.com
Thanks for pointing that out. I wouldn't have seen it or the vote he was talking about otherwise. Sadly I'm not the least bit surprised.

Date: 2006-10-22 10:24 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Alas, the surprising thing is that so many people have remained blissfully unaware of what is going on and what it really means. These little insidious changes are eating away at everyone's freedoms and protections, not just hurting terrorists. In fact, they will do little against terrorists, but are certain to be ultimately abused against others. The Bush administration has a growing track record of abusive behavior toward anyone critical of its policies. It's the old Eugene McCarthy attitude: "If you oppose us, you are siding with the enemy and should be considered a traitor."

Date: 2006-10-23 04:44 am (UTC)
ext_238564: (Default)
From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com
Joseph McCarthy, no? Not Eugene; he was a fine lefty.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 10:50 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 03:13 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 03:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 03:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 04:09 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-22 08:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] songdawg.livejournal.com
I've also been watching this develop for the last couple of decades, and I've been fighting it the whole time. It's still not hopeless, I swear!

Vote.

Date: 2006-10-22 10:29 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
It feels pretty hopeless to me. I live in a state that went for Kerry and that has two Democratic senators who certainly voted against this bill and also opposed the Patriot act renewal. However, the house districts are nicely Gerrymandered and the one I live in repeatedly re-elects a knee-jerk party-line Republican to Congress. I do vote, but my vote is shouted down by people who vote straight Republican without ever even thinking about the implications. I also suspect that those who say the electronic voting machine results are being tinkered with are probably correct. We don't use touch screen voting here, yet. But we do use electronic counting equipment. The difference is that paper ballots are marked and fed into a machine that scans them optically. The paper ballots remain as a paper trail that can be audited. I think that's considerably safer.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] songdawg.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 11:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-22 11:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] songdawg.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 12:07 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-22 11:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cabcat.livejournal.com
Revolution!!

Date: 2006-10-22 11:56 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Unfortunately, the people who hoard all the guns and ammunition tend to be on the other end of the political spectrum. Generally speaking, I don't favor violent upheavals. They tend to get too much blood on the carpet and cause too much social and economic damage.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] cabcat.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 01:09 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 10:55 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] cabcat.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 11:25 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-23 04:36 am (UTC)
ext_238564: (Default)
From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com
Interesting side note: According to an Associated Press article I read via Yahoo during the week after the vote (around Oct. 1) the Democratic senate leadership gave senators the permission to vote for the Military Commissions Act if the were in a tight reelection race and a no vote could work against them. Before I read Keillor's commentary, I confirmed that of Michigan's senators, Debbie Stabenow voted for the act, while Carl Levin voted against. Stabenow is up for reelection this fall, Levin is not.

I've been told that it's important to elect Democrats if only just because the Republicans are evil. But I'm now convinced that the Democrats are at least nearly as evil and will ultimately not put our interests first if it means they might lose their seats. It's disheartening to have to choose the lesser of two evils, election after election.

Date: 2006-10-23 10:52 am (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
It's amazing to me that ANY politician in the US would think a vote against that insidious act would put him/her in danger of losing an election. Are there that many voters who actually think it's a good idea? I simply can't believe that. Truly I can't.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 03:11 pm (UTC) - Expand

"Soft on defense"

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 03:25 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: "Soft on defense"

From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 03:40 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: "Soft on defense"

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 04:18 pm (UTC) - Expand

Soft on opposition

From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 05:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com - Date: 2006-10-23 04:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2006-10-23 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kakoukorakos.livejournal.com
Keillor had an excellent editorial several months ago, pretty much just as political as this one. I love the anecdote towards the end of his column, though I'd wonder if the audience was applauding his facetious remark or were so clueless as to believe that really was his attitude. Whatever the case, the attitude is prevalent enough to be a danger. The funny thing is, Maurice Ogden, the author of The Hangman (which was all about that "it's okay as long as it's just the other guy" mindset) is a Methodist minister as I recall.

Date: 2006-10-23 05:29 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (altivo blink)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Frankly, I'm more than a little surprised that Keillor agreed to address that congregation under those circumstances. I suppose he hoped to introduce some sort of widening influence on their little brains, but I doubt he succeeded, especially since he was too subtle for them.

November 2024

S M T W T F S
     12
345678 9
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Feb. 25th, 2026 03:39 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios