Of wells and hydrants

[altivo]

After leaving the pump off all night, we found this morning that the pump was running every six minutes, as opposed to every five minutes last night. So the freeze did not create much temporary blockage. After drawing water in the house for immediate needs and for the animals (carried out in buckets, I'm glad the barns aren't farther from the house than they are) we shut the pump down again.

The well guy was just here. He confirms that there is no shutoff valve for that line (dumb, he says, and I agree.) His boss will call or be back with an estimate. There is now water oozing up through the barn floor, so we know there's a leak buried down there. He confirms that the two freezeless hydrants that were installed are cheap ones, probably from Farm & Fleet, and says they should be replaced with better quality. If we have to dig this all up, I'm going to get the best stuff I can and have that shutoff installed too. Since the line comes right off from the well supply rather than running to the house, it will be what they call a "buffalo box," an underground valve that is turned on and off with a long tool inserted through an access cover. Probably that alone will cost $500 to put in. With two new hydrants and two large holes to be dug out, I'll be surprised if this comes in for less than $2500. Sigh.

We've called our insurance agent, but probably the insurance only covers damage to the structures, not the plumbing itself.

Comments

[murakozi.livejournal.com]

Ugh. Is it really the hydrants or just that the pipes for them weren't buried deep enough? The basic design of a freezeless hydrant should keep the bits above the freeze line drained no matter their build, shouldn't it?

Those things are a chore to replace. :(

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Until we dig them up, it's difficult to determine the sequence of damage. However, I suspect the problem is that they weren't draining well. This is no surprise. Our soil is clay and silt. Surface puddles normally stand there until they evaporate. They don't sink into the ground at all. Either the gravel basins for the hydrants were not dug large and deep enough, or they have silted up over the years so that they couldn't take as much water and hold it until it sank. We've had several dry years. The last really wet one was 1998, the year we bought the place. In dry times, water absorption from the ground is still good. This year has been wet, and especially so since last autumn, so the ground is saturated and then frozen. Impervious to water, so the drainage basins filled up and then froze. That's my guess.

The crew is coming to dig tomorrow morning and we'll find out.

well.... and wells...

[bonnie-tiler.livejournal.com]

Read about your problems with interest as we live in freezing area too, and we have our own water pump and so on..
I take it that what you call a hydrant is what I would call a hydrophor? the tank that builds up the pressure?
If so, why don't you build a small insulated cupboard around them, and put in a little heatfan, just enough to keep at 5 centigrades (I don't do Farenheit..lol) Plywood boards and styrofoam, 2-3 hours of work...
In Sweden we can put a cable in the waterpipe that will prevent it from freezing, this can be done afterwards, does not have to be installed when you lay down your line..
Don't know the price of the cable and thermostat but it would not have to cost 2500usd
You'd need a certified electrician to install it though..
Hope you can get it fixed for a reasonable price whatever you choose to do about it, if I could I would gladly help you. But it's a bit far away...
How did your ginger breads turn out?

Re: well.... and wells...

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Hi! Glad to hear from you. I haven't tried the ginger bread yet because I'm still looking for golden syrup, but the recipe is sitting out on the kitchen counter waiting.

The hydrant is not the same as the pressure tank. That part is under the house and well protected from freezing. What we call hydrants or "freezeless taps" are long vertical valves designed to be attached to a supply line buried deep underground. They open with a lever at the top, allowing the water to rise in a vertical pipe and exit through a spigot. When closed, the supply is shut off and a drainage valve opens, letting the standing water in the vertical line drain off into the soil. These are often used to supply running water in areas like unheated buildings where ordinary water lines and valves would freeze. I imagine you have something similar over there, and I just don't know the name for it.

Re: well.... and wells...

[bonnie-tiler.livejournal.com]

I see... there was me trying to help...I'm sorry
We have an outdoor pipe with a valve that we use for watering plants in summer. I normally insulate that every winter with a thick layer of glassfibre mat and an upturned plastic barrel. this winter has been ridiculous so I haven't bothered.
When you explain it to me I started thinking about how to solve your problem, but that's also stupid since I haven't seen the actual item.
The lowest we've gone down here is about -19 Farenheit some years ago.
clever contraption (http://koti.mbnet.fi/pasenka/fun/temp-e.htm?Text2=&F=32&F_expr=%28212-32%29%2F100+%2A+C.value+%2B+32+&C=5&C_expr=100%2F%28212-32%29+%2A+%28F.value+-+32+%29)
Wish you luck!!

Re: well.... and wells...

[altivo.livejournal.com]

No need to apologize, any helpful suggestions are always welcome. :)

I've friended you now so your comments won't be screened.

Here's a web page describing the "freezeless hydrant" as we know it here.

http://www.woodfordmfg.com/Woodford/Yard_Hydrant_Pages/modely34.htm

The ones we have installed are not as well made as that, and the one in the photo is, I think, what our well man proposes to replace them with.

Re: well.... and wells...

[bonnie-tiler.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the add 'tivo
Don't expect much from my journal.. I only update once in a blue moon
Have been reading yours through vimsig s for awhile,
always with great interest!

Re: well.... and wells...

[farhoug.livejournal.com]

Google's also handy with those conversions, just type "72 f to c" (without the quotes) to the search box. It works as an emergency calculator too. =)

[songdogmi.livejournal.com]

What a bummer. You have my condolences.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Thanks. It will be all right, except for my poor punctured savings account.

I've been expecting a problem with that water line for years now. The possibly good news is that our insurance may cover a portion of the cost, if the well expert confirms that there is damage caused by freezing rather than by defective equipment or materials. There's a deductible, and any enhancements to the setup will not be included, but still, anything at all is better than nothing.

[songdogmi.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to hear the insurance might be some help. That's something I might not have expected, myself.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

At first thought, I didn't expect it either. But then, if a windstorm blew a tree onto my house, I'd expect insurance to help fix the roof. If a wildfire damaged any of our buildings, I'd expect insurance to help pay. Severe weather beyond what is normal for our area is certainly the same kind of cause, so we called and asked about it.

Several years ago, we had problems with heavy snow and ice dams forming on the roof. There was some leakage that stained a wall, and we had the insurance adjuster come look at it. He said that such damage was indeed covered, but he estimated the cost in our case to be less than the deductible, which was probably true. So I knew that weather damage should be eligible for coverage at least in some respects.

[heavens-steed.livejournal.com]

*hugs you* I'm sorry that you have such an expensive problem on your hooves. It's never fun to get those kind of surprises. I hope the cost won't hurt the bank too much.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Oh, it will hurt for a while, but it's like a root canal or something. You have no choice. It can't possibly be as expensive as when I had to replace the house heating and cooling system just two years after we bought the place, but it will probably be more than when we had to replace the pressure tank and regulators on the well.

I've known for a while that eventually we'd have to do something about that water line. It was obviously not well-installed, and it's a sort of miracle that it lasted so long. According to our insurance agent, there seems to be a chance that insurance will pay at least a small portion of the total.

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

Yowza! *offers you an oaty treat* Well at least I'm sure it'll be done right if you're involved. Thats reminded me about my fuse box.

[marzolan.livejournal.com]

Hopefully the insurance will pay some decent portion of that instead of something that basically adds up to just a hug for your trouble. That's my job anyways... *hugs* Hope it doesn't take too long to do. The time can sometimes hurt more and be more annoying for repairs like that than the hit on the savings.

[farhoug.livejournal.com]

I was also going to suggest checking those in-pipe heating elements, but I think those freezeless hydrant thingies would be a superior solution anyways, being purely mechanical... only if they would work. =)

Hopefully there's some simple and especially cheap solution for that trouble, I'm sure there'd be better places to put that money into...

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I think we've exhausted the cheap solutions. They start digging today. ;p

[octatonic.livejournal.com]

Its rare that insurance companies cover water
damage unless you have a specific policy or a
specific clause in your policy.

But I've learned that all they can do is
say no.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Actually they said it "might" be covered. Flood damage is not covered, but frost and freezing damage is. If the well guys determine that the damage was caused by freezing rather than by faulty or aging plumbing, then the agent says at least part of the expense will be covered. Of course there's still a $500 deductible, but this job looks to come in at way over that amount. I'm at work now, but the well crew should be at the farm working on it this morning under Gary's watchful eye.