Plumbing saga pt. 1

[altivo]

So, the well crew arrived about 9 am today (after I was at work) with a backhoe. They dug up around the well head and found, as we had already inferred, the tee connection that took water off to the barns. Not only did it have no shutoff, it used plastic or nylon joints. Fortunately it had been buried four feet down and was not frozen or otherwise damaged. They took that off, and installed instead a brass tee connection and a heavy duty buffalo box (curb stop to you folks who live outside the midwest.) That's one of those valves that lives at the bottom of a long tube with a cap on it. To turn the valve, you remove the cap and use a long(!) wrench with a fork on the bottom of it. We'll have to see about getting one of those wrenches just in case we need it in the future.

So now the barns are on their own branch line that can be shut off at the well. And they are shut off now until things thaw out, which could be a couple of months. The ground under the horse barn is saturated and frozen, and there's no way to dig that up until the thaw. But at least we can have water pressure in the house again, for nice things like laundry and showers and washing dishes.

The cost was not as bad as I feared. I guessed that with the backhoe and a crew of two for 4 or 5 hours, plus parts, it would run me a thousand. It was only $600. Of course, the hydrants in the barns still need to be dug up and replaced, but that comes later and now I can choose when to do it. We will have good quality brass Woodford/Iowa hydrants put in.

The only problem, and it's no small one at the moment, is that with no water supply in either barn, we have to carry water to the horses and sheep in buckets from the house. That's eight or ten buckets a day, no small chore. I'm debating ways to make it a little easier, like getting a sled and using a couple of those big water cooler jugs that we will fill up by running a hose into the garage from the kitchen. The distance to be covered is about a hundred feet, which isn't too terrible except that it is not level and at the moment there's about four inches of packed snow over all of it. When the snow is gone we'll have to use a wagon.

The temperature outside is still just 11°F, well below the high that was predicted for today.

Comments

[shadow-stallion.livejournal.com]

Glad to hear you got at least part of the problem fixed.

Could you not run a hose to the barn for water when you need it? I realize it is cold out and you would have to roll it up and store it in a warm place between uses. That is generally what my parents do since they don't have a water line to their barn. Granted though, I don't know how they handle it when it gets bitterly cold.

Kevin says hi and we both hope you two are well.

Stay warm.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

A hose will be the interim solution once the outdoor temperature gets above freezing, probably in March some time. It will take a while after that for the ground to thaw, and under the barn, probably quite a while longer.

Right now, though, an outdoor hose is not practical. For one thing, the water tap on that side of the house is also in bad shape and needs to be replaced. It's hard to operate and the threads on the spout are damaged, so putting a hose on and removing it is not easy even in summer.

More importantly, a hose run out from the house right now would become so stiff (even without frozen water in it) that you couldn't roll it back up. We use long hoses like that to reach the garden and pasture from the barns in summer. It's about 700 feet of hoses, and they have to be picked up in fall before the weather gets cold or they won't roll up at all. Instead they would just break like sticks. The only way I know to handle it with hoses in cold weather requires that you use a compressor to blow the water out of the hose after each use. We'd have to buy a compressor and get that tap replaced before it would even be possible.

[corelog.livejournal.com]

At least it's not as bad as it could have been, which is indeed a relief. :)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Well, for the moment. I anticipate another $1200 or more to replace the hydrants when the time comes. Meanwhile, we're going to get very tired of hauling water.

[quickcasey.livejournal.com]

Oh, give me a home, where the buffalo box roam. The midwest rules.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

You might know the answer to this. Where would we get one of those shutoff wrenches without paying two arms and a leg for it? I'm estimating it has to be about five feet long at least. Six would work, four would be too short.

I imagine the well guys would get us one, but it would be full price from them, plus a markup. Without it, we have to call them for help every time it needs to be turned on or off.

[quickcasey.livejournal.com]

If you can get me an idea what the fork looks like, Farmer Bob can make one.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I'll have to check first and see which brand of valve they installed. The typical keys are shown here

http://www.wagerco.com/valve_and_curb_keys_and_shutoff.htm

and here

http://www.aymcdonald.com/ProdList_Water.cfm?getgroup=42&sendCat=4

Looks like we could order a key for somewhere between $50 and $70 plus shipping for about ten pounds weight. That's not quite as expensive as I'd feared. I know you don't usually just walk into a hardware and buy one because in many cities only the water department and licensed plumbers are supposed to have them. Of course that doesn't apply out here and we own the well and the valve.

[quickcasey.livejournal.com]

I printed out the links. I take it there is a square nut on the valve. How big is the question. If you find out, fabrication is not a problem.

[delphinios.livejournal.com]

The wrenches you're talking about, are under $20+Tax and S&H at this website (scroll down a bit). On the parts reciept, you should be able to find out what the particular type of key you'd need (5/8", 1/2", etc)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

My receipt just shows "curb stop" so that doesn't really help. I'll probably have to call them up to find out. There are several different shapes for the key.

Thanks for the reference. I'll add that website to my list of possible sources. Those are Mueller keys, the kind they usually used around Detroit when I was a kid. The price looks good, but there's a small catch. The minimum purchase is TWO. That puts you back up in the same price range as the Erie and Minnesota keys I was looking at. ;p

[delphinios.livejournal.com]

*nods*

This is most likely what you're going to be needing. It's the most common of the street keys:
Hardwareandtools.com

I'm pretty sure they don't require a minimum order, and they're $16+TAX+S&H each.

[lobowolf.livejournal.com]

Well, that wasn't as bas as you had feared..that's kind of nice. Unfortunately, there's more expense involved with replacing the hydrants.

I'd never heard the expression "buffalo box" before..nor did I know underground shutoff valves had a name. My grandfather had one of those keys that he either had made or had his buddy at the water department get for him, and he used to turn the water to the summer cottage on in the spring and off in the fall (after installing or removing the meter, of course). It used to piss the town off to no end because they like to charge for that...but apparently, he'd been doing it for so long..they just kept letting him do it. After he passed away, the water guys confiscated the "key" from my grandmother (who didn't know anything about plumbing anyway).

Assuming you know what's on the other end, you should be able to get the local welding shop to make you one. The valves that I saw had a straight piece of channel stock on the end that mated with a thin rectangular head.

[lobowolf.livejournal.com]

bas=bad

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Heh. I didn't even spot that one first time through. Actually, doesn't
bas=bad as?

[lobowolf.livejournal.com]

Um..yeah....works for me. Usually I go back, copy the comment, fix the error, and delete the bad post, but I'm too lazy tonight. Odd....Firefox's spellcheck-on-the-fly didn't catch it, either. Bas. Nope. Doesn't red-flag it. Weird. Maybe the coders who wrote Firefox's spellchecker were big bas-relief fans? "Wow, dude, check out this wicked awesome bas in my dorm!!! Woot!"

Oddly enough, the world "spellchecker" gets flagged, but "bas" doesn't. Neither does "Woot." I love irony.

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

Hey that's grand news, the damage was as you expected with nothing else unpleasant surprising you. And the fact it wasn't as expensive as you were expecting, if the job is done well nothing else tops that :)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Well, we have a pile of broken earth around the well head that's going to settle and turn to mud. Something has to be done about that. On the other hand, they had to rip out some honeysuckle bushes that I won't miss. Now I can plant something else there in the spring.

[tinbender.livejournal.com]

$600 for all that work isn't too bad. It's still a large chunk of change, but not as large as it could've been. Also be glad that you've got a well. A guy that I work with had a similar issue except that he was on rural water and he racked up a huge bill after going through several thousands of gallons before they discovered the leak.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

We weren't on metered water even when we lived in the city of Chicago. Our house there was so old (build in 1877) that it had no meter and we paid a flat quarterly rate for water, no matter how much we used.

However, that also leads to trouble. It's a long story, but the gas company seriously damaged our water supply line while digging up their own lines. They "repaired" it, but not very well and the next winter it started to leak out between curb and sidewalk. We had a six month battle with the city and the gas utility over that, with the city threatening to shut off our water supply because of the leakage and the gas company denying any responsibility. Because of union regulations and so forth, we would have had to hire licensed union plumbers to repair it and the cost was estimated at $3000. I was furious. Finally we got the alderman's office involved and he somehow talked the water department and the gas utility into sharing the cost of the replacement line. Naturally they destroyed our entire front yard to put it in because they were so mad about having to pay for it.

[goldenstallion.livejournal.com]

Dear Rider,

We use a cheap, black plastic sled (Meijers or Wally World) for hauling hay and it works great and lasted three Winters now. Should fit three five gallon to seven gallon buckets and drags easily through the snow and even gravel and grass for that matter. Might give it a try.

Imperator

[altivo.livejournal.com]

That's what I'm thinking, but open buckets won't work. They slosh too much. We have a 30 gallon plastic tank but it's too slow to get the water out of and too heavy to pick up and pour. If I can get a couple of those ten gallon carboy things, the plastic ones they use in water coolers, I think that will work for now. Just have to find a source for them.

Hopefully WalMart or somewhere still has winter sled toys and didn't get rid of all of them after Christmas.

[heavens-steed.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that at least the cost of repair so far has been less than expected. That's a good thing. :)

Carrying all that water to the barn does sound like a mighty difficult and tedious chore if it has to be done every day. Time to get ingenious and figure out a way to make water transportation easier, although it sounds like you're already thinking that way.

And it's way too cold where you live. I can handle it being in the 30's, and even in the 20's maybe, but any less than that and it would be completely miserable. I work outside mostly and that would probably kill me. I'm glad it is starting to warm up a little here in Oregon.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

You adapt to weather conditions. It's all a matter of learning how to deal with them. The key to our winter cold (which only lasts ten to fifteen days in the average year) is clothing. Wear the proper things and you are fine. I rarely get too cold working outdoors, except for my hands.

I don't find the cold pleasant, but it only lasts a week or two. Summer heat and humidity is much more difficult for me.

[murakozi.livejournal.com]

Shucks. The ponies are trained for driving aren't they? Hitch 'em up and make 'em lug their water over to the tanks on a sled. :D

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Heh. Not a chance. It takes longer to hitch a team than it would take me to carry a hundred gallons of water all by myself.

The last person we knew who actually used his horses for farm work has retired from the dairy business. But what he did was put the harness on them first thing every morning and keep it on until dusk. That way if he needed a team he could just slip bridles on and hitch them to the equipment.

In any case, we no longer have a working harness. The boys ran away with Gary driving five years ago, smashed the wagon into a tree and broke up their harness. Gary insists he will never drive again, and I've always been a rider rather than a driver, so we never invested in new harness. Tess is "green broke" to drive single, but she's skittish and prone to shy just on a lead or under saddle. I can manage that astride, but I think I might prefer not to experience it in a cart.

[murakozi.livejournal.com]

Dagnabbit, I was about to hit 'post' when the power here burped. :P

Hee. I was only kidding about using the boys to haul water. I know that hitching up a team isn't exactly something one can do quickly.

As far as using horses for farm work, one of the ponies at the barn, Tonka - a Percheron/Haflinger mix, came from a farm in West Virginia. I'm told the only bit of level ground there was the spot where the house was. Tonka and his near-identical hitch mate were used to pull a sled loaded with hay up the steep hills to the pasture twice a day so the other livestock could be fed.

Here's a picture of Tonka and his pal Blackjack at the stables here. He's somewhat rounder and more padded than he was when we first got him. When he arrived, he was all muscle, built like a little tank. He's got quite a personality and is one of my favorites.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yes, Haffies, especially those from older bloodlines, often look like bodybuilder ponies. They are easy keepers too, growing fat on half the feed that others of similar weight need just to stay as they are.

My boys are old-style A liners, though they're getting old enough now that they don't have the heavy muscle they did when they were younger.

[stephaniefoster.livejournal.com]

My grandparents had an equi centre with about 30 horses, and I remember dragging water out by hand. Not fun :S

[altivo.livejournal.com]

For 30 horses? Gosh, I should think that would be no fun at all.

[deffox]

Sounds good that there is some progress. Being able to have water in the house without the pump running constantly.

Not having a valve on a run like that sounds pretty shoddy

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Cheap is the word. We have learned since buying this place that a lot of the construction here is poor. The original house is practically made of cardboard, though at least it's well insulated because it was built during the 70s energy "crisis". The horse barn has a poor roof and took major work when we got here to make it usable. The riding arena is better quality, mainly because it's a prefab steel wall building, but I think the plumbing was done as cheaply as possible and the electrical wiring of both barns was a nightmare.