Get a horse?

[altivo]

OK, after a somewhat lengthy discussion over on avon_deer's LJ last week, I decided to actually compare this. The hypothesis offered by some was that soon it would be more cost efficient to use a horse instead of an internal combusion powered vehicle.

So I made some inquiries and checked some records. I'm in a good position to make the comparison, since I own a riding horse and a modest vehicle with an efficient 4 cylinder engine that does a bit better than the national average according to the EPA.

This comparison does not take into account the cost of my own time. In other words, I'd have to allow an hour of travel time between home and work rather than 25 minutes if I used my horse. Keeping the horse requires maintenance tasks, such as at least occasional stall and paddock cleanups, grooming, hoof care, and tack care. Those take more time than I normally spend on washing the car or checking the tires.

Estimated daily costs of keeping a horse and riding her to and from work:

Hay: $2
Grain: $0.50
(Water: call it free, since we have our own well)
Bedding: $1
Food supplements (vitamins and hoof builder): $1 (not cheap but she needs it)
Vet bills (amortized): $1.25
Farrier (shoes and hoof trim every 8 weeks): $2
Tack and grooming supplies: $0.10 (includes fly and mosquito repellent)

Total: $7.85 per day


Estimated daily costs of keeping my Ford Escape and driving to and from work:

Fuel (at current prices): $4
License fees: $0.22 (car only, not driver)
Insurance: $1.50
Oil and maintenance costs: $0.33
Tire wear: $0.28 (based on four tires every five years)

Total: $6.33 per day

It's actually getting closer than I thought. Of course, the horse costs are less because I live in a reasonably rural area. In an urban or suburban zone there would be additional expense for things like manure removal. Here we can just spread it in the gardens or the pasture.

There's another thing to consider, though. The vehicle cost me about $19,000 two years ago. The horse cost me only $3,000 seven years ago. Even adding in the cost of saddle, bridle, and riding gear, it doesn't reach $4,000. Tess is a purebred registered mare and was in foal to a champion stallion when I bought her. Without the foal, she'd have sold for $500 to $1000 less. An unregistered grade horse could be perfectly serviceable for my purposes and might have cost me only $1000 or so. Tess has an expected working lifespan, if properly cared for and all, of another ten years or more. That (considering the seven years I've already had her) exceeds the expectation for the vehicle, which cost considerably more in the first place.

So if you factor in usable life expectancy, initial cost of ownership, and rate of depreciation, the horse wins before she even gets out of the starting gate (hooves down!) But in terms of daily cost of ownership and operation, the internal combustion engine still comes out on top.

Note that all bets are off if the internal combustion vehicle is an overpowered truck or SUV, however. The horse already beats those on costs, but won't satisfy an owner addicted to instant spur of the moment starts and high acceleration or sustained speed. For a conservative driver like myself, though, who doesn't get any thrill whatsoever from speed, squealing tires, or roaring exhausts, the horse may look very attractive overall.

There are many reasons why I can't just ride Tess to work right now. Perhaps some of them will change if trends continue, but I rather doubt it.

Comments

[delphinelicorne.livejournal.com]

Yeah, overall cost of a horse is much lower, several (but not many) towns in France decided to use horses instead of trucks for things like trash and other stuff, I think a good use would be the post itself, they dont need to get fast because they already use bikes but then they'd transport more letters at once.
As for myself, I always wanted to ride my horse to work :p. But I don't have a horse :/.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Horses were last used in daily work over here as delivery and pickup vehicles. They only disappeared completely about 50 years ago. This fits in with my comment to songdogmi below: even when I was a child, there were no longer horse amenities in most places. A horse drawn vehicle could pass through, but the horse could not be left unattended anywhere. So for a use where the driver could stay within eyesight of the horse all day, it was still workable, and would be today except for the problems caused by rude and always in a hurry motorists.

[baphnedia.livejournal.com]

It depends on your situation... as for lifestyle choices, there are a couple of things...

- If you make the extra time to go to work (talking on a cell phone while riding a horse might not be nearly as dangerous, since your transportation has a mind of it's own)...
- You can enjoy the trip (I recently yapped about using a bicycle instead of a car if I had the chance). Right now I walk to work because of a 300ft distance.

[delphinelicorne.livejournal.com]

well, for laws horses are considered vehicles, so you need to be able to control it at any given time thus cell phones are forbidden on horseback while riding the road. :p

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I only wish cell phones were forbidden while driving. Many people here seem to be unable to drive at all without the phone at their ear. Of course, that means they are still unable to drive, at least not safely.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

LOL. If I talk for ten minutes on the phone in a week, it's unusual. I'd certainly carry a cell phone and/or a ham radio transceiver if I rode my horse away from home, but only as an emergency means of communication. I've never had much use for the telephone.

[vakkotaur.livejournal.com]

From Bob Hope's appearance on The Muppet Show:

Hope: Where's the music coming from?
Horse: There's a tape deck in the saddle.
Hope: Huh, stereophonic horse.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

That of course is possible. Or an MP3 player. For myself, I'd rather hear the birds and the wind anyway while riding or driving a horse. Because typical speeds are under 20 mph, the roar of the wind doesn't drown out the natural sounds.

[vakkotaur.livejournal.com]

I quite agree. Even bicycling I prefer to be able to hear things and not just to keep an ear out for upcoming traffic. Cycling through a local park I really noticed it all went by too fast (I know, I could have slowed down) and I didn't notice nearly as much as I would have had I been walking. Still, I noticed more than I have to keep control of the car.

[rustitobuck.livejournal.com]

Mentioned this to a friend and his immediate response: "And you don't get free fertilizer for the garden from the Escape."

So did you figure that part in?

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Only in the mention of manure removal costs for urban dwellers. :)

I've never bought fertilizer for the garden. Even when we lived in the city, we just composted all the vegetable scraps, weeds, etc. and made do with that, so I considered it a wash. It's true though that horse manure is superior fertilizer. It is best to let it sit for a year before using it in the garden, but it has little odor, excellent consistency, and the plants love it.

Additional start-up cost

[songdogmi.livejournal.com]

A horse and its food and stuff needs a barn, or a shed at least. Cars don't really require a garage, though it does help the car last longer if it's in one.

Re: Additional start-up cost

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I just rolled that into the mentioned difference that I live in a relatively rural area. Here everyone has a garage space. They may fill it with other stuff and never put the car into it, but they have one. Actually, it's typical to see six or eight vehicles parked around a house occupied by two or three people. Because space is not at a premium, they accumulate old vehicles instead of trading or selling them for a pittance.

Whether the horse herself needs much shelter depends on other factors. In some areas, only a windbreak or shed roof is essential, but here I think a real barn space is a requirement in winter. She'd survive without it, but I'd consider it cruel to do that to her. Food costs are reduced by providing warm shelter in winter. A horse out in the weather needs more food to keep warm.

Also, while I assumed riding astride because I prefer it, a small cart or buggy is more practical and makes for a much smoother ride if you are going to cover 15 miles in an hour. So the cost of an open cart (about $1200) or a covered buggy (about $3000) should be included in the startup estimate. If you use synthetics rather than leather, the harness will cost about the same as a good saddle and bridle.

The absolute show stopper in today's world is the fact that horse amenities have vanished. There are no hitching posts, watering troughs, livery stables or other facilities at all. I can't use Tess for anything more than novelty transportation because there is nowhere for her to be while I'm working, shopping, or conducting business.

[captpackrat.livejournal.com]

I think if you rode a horse to work, you'd still need some kind of liability insurance (though I supposed your homeowner's policy might cover it).

Horses come with air conditioning, power steering and cruise control as standard equipment. But they lack a 12 speaker stereo or a GPS navigation system.

One thing though, the car only costs money when you use it, the horse is a constant expense. You can park your car in the garage for a month and it will still work when you turn the key. If you park your horse for a month, it'll stop working.

[delphinelicorne.livejournal.com]

Well, the horse will always find the way back home if food is waiting, not the car, as for parking the car, if you park it too long you'll have to pay for repairs (like rust or dried tires) that might be much more expensive than the days cost.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Delphine is right. If you park your car for a month, you are still paying storage costs, deterioration, insurance, and license fees. You just aren't using gas and oil (unless you have leaks.)

If you park the horse in a pasture with decent grass, her maintenance expenses go down. A horse who isn't doing extra work will do very well on just grass and water, with an open sided shelter from wind and rain. Of course, in winter up here you still need to supply supplementary food because the grass stops growing.

Motorized vehicles are required by law to be licensed and insured here. Horses are not, so I only considered required expenses.

[silver-kiden.livejournal.com]

unfortunately, most places no longer have a hitching post. also, would you REALLY trust nobody to mess with the horse while you were working all day?

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Absolutely correct. That's covered in my last paragraph and laid out in more detail in my response to songdogmi's comment. That's the reason I really can't switch to horsepower for my daily commute or even for an occasional trip in good weather.

[schnee.livejournal.com]

I imagine riding a horse to work might also be difficult insofar as that you'd have to find a place where your horse can stay while you actually work - a car will be content to just sit in the parking lot all day, but a horse, naturally, will have needs beyond that.

Interesting thought, though. :)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Exactly. I summed that up in the last paragraph.

Only a century ago, there were all sorts of provisions for this. Harvard, the town where I work, undoubtedly was large enough to have a livery stable, so if necessary I could have paid a monthly fee for a "parking space" for my horse, where she would have been watched over by an attendant and had hay and water available. The library grounds are actually large enough today, and include about three acres of open grassland that could in fact easily accommodate a horse for each staff member who would need one, but fences and watering troughs would have to be installed. The present parking area could handle hitching posts and watering troughs for library users who would only be there for an hour or less at a time.

The real problem is our culture, which has lost the understanding, ethics, and attitudes needed to make this work. I do think we'd get some of it back pretty quickly if all motorized transportation simply stopped working, but there has actually been a gradual change over the last hundred years and the next hundred are going to see more changes because we simply can't continue along the present course of development at all.

[murakozi.livejournal.com]

Obviously, the cost is going to vary by individual situations.

For those without the benefit of land and a building in which to keep a horse, though, there would be additional expenses. In this area, even the most inexpensive pasture boarding runs about $200/month, adding another $6.45 per day to the cost (in 31 day months).

There's also the question of where the horse'll be kept when one is at work. That could result in more costs.

The extra wear and tear on tack, shoes, and of course, the horse itself would also add some expense. That can be illustrated by the horses at the barn here. The school horse work daily and are reshod and get vet visits for this and that far more often than the boarded horses.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I think in most cases we could ignore the boarding costs. I'm assuming that "infrastructure" would have to return to the state it was in a century ago. People who lived in really close quarters, like apartments and row houses, would use commercial or public transit systems, cabs, bicycles, or footpower most of the time. Those who live in freestanding houses with garages could often keep a single horse using those facilities, just as many people did a century ago. It requires adjustments in how things are done, but it is workable. We assume that manure removal services and feed delivery services would reappear, for instance. Are these conditions ideal for the horse? No, probably not. Are they workable? Yes, they were and could be, and we could improve on them quite a lot.

I did include estimated costs of shoes, farriery and vet bills. I talked to my farrier and vet about it in fact. They were both amused that I was even modeling such a thing, but they offered the information and advice I wanted. My farrier is a personal friend, but his estimated charges were about the going rate here for an otherwise healthy and well-behaved horse. He said Tess would need new shoes every eight weeks, and the cost for that would be about $80 each time. (Right now I pay $30 every eight weeks for general hoof trimming. Tess goes barefoot.) The vet actually thought that level of work would be good for Tess at her present age and state of health, and didn't expect any increased vet bills. (I pay a flat annual fee of about $480 for vet services for Tess. That includes four visits, all necessary vaccinations, a Coggins test each year and some other analysis stuff like fecal testing for parasites.)

[hellmutt.livejournal.com]

I think I prefer the idea of telecommuting and taking the nag out for a trot during screen breaks. ;)

Also, saw this and thought of you... horse_macro

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Telecommuting does indeed work for some things, but not for all. It isn't used nearly as much as it could be, because employers don't believe you will actually work, or that work counts if you do it while wearing your bathrobe. ;p

I hadn't seen the LOLHorses, no.

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

If people DO start using horses as serious transport again, our cities will have to change. We'll have to bring back tethering posts and water troughs. Good news for me, living near York. They never got rid of theirs in the first place. :D

[altivo.livejournal.com]

A few years ago a fellow running for city council in the closest town here (Marengo, Illinois, population 4000 or so) proposed doing just that. Bring back the hitching posts and water troughs, make provision for horse trailers in the public parking lots (all two of them) and adjust local ordinances to encourage horse owners to visit and enjoy the town.

It was a good idea but doomed from the start because he wanted to lower the speed limits on the two main routes through town to 25 mph. Any talk of making people slow down immediately gets their ire up and he was not elected.

Ironically, since then the speed limit on State Street has been dropped to 20 mph in the immediate downtown area because there were so many pedestrians being injured by fast moving vehicles whose drivers were paying no attention to the zebra crossings. (Cell phones and the perpetual "I'm in a hurry get out of my way" attitude.)

It's easy to put in hitches and water troughs actually. What people resist is the need to remove manure (oddly enough the piles of cigarette butts and candy wrappers don't seem to bother them, but I'd rather see manure) and the need to slow down to accommodate slower moving buggies and riders. Most people today have never seen real horse droppings, and they imagine something sticky and smelly like dog poop only in much larger quantities.

The real serious problem as I see it is the total ignorance most people have about horses today. There would be a lot of injuries caused by kids poking and teasing the tied horses, for instance. I suspect theft of horses might rise after a while, though not many right now would be able to pull it off effectively because they don't know how to "drive" the horse. Riders and drivers would be at risk from rude and inconsiderate vehicle drivers, some of whom will deliberately try to spook a horse just to see it rear up or shy.

Still, in areas of the country where Mennonites and Amish live in large numbers, horse-drawn vehicles are common on the roads and do usually get treated with appropriate respect. We haven't lost it completely, but it would take a while to retrieve our history.

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

Such risks are occupational hazards. People learn through pain; and a few painful kicks in the shin will soon teach such kids. The fact is that unless someone comes up with a viable alternative to internal combustion; regression to a more agrarian existence is inevitable. It'll be the end of big cities, which require high capacity mass transit in order to service their populations.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't see it as an end to urban concentrations at all. After all, London, New York, Paris, and Philadelphia were flourishing in the 18th and 19th centuries.

I do see it as an end to the bedroom suburbs and the associated commuter mentalities in many cases. Urban areas will change and survive because there are many economic reasons for which they can continue to function. Transportation of food and goods into such centers will have to shift back to railroads, which is entirely feasible. Local distribution will be handled either by electric vehicles or perhaps in some cases, horsedrawn equipment.

A lot of things, including lifestyles will certainly have to change. In the US, local production of vegetables, fruit, and livestock has all but vanished from many regions. A huge percentage of fresh produce is shipped all the way from California to serve markets in the midwest and even the east coast. This will have to change, I think, and local farmland will need to be put back to work to produce human food rather than merely growing corn and soybeans that are largely used to fatten livestock on the plains before they are sent to slaughter. Meat consumption can and should decline, which will be a good thing all around. Small vegetable gardens should see a new burst of popularity to rival what happened in the 1930s and 40s. Preserving surplus food from the garden for winter consumption will also be revived, though most people will probably freeze it now rather than going back to home canning.

Energy technologies, and transportation in particular, must advance. As the pressure increases, this will happen. The massive economic power of the oil industry has held these changes in check for the last 80 years or so, but will eventually lose its grip.

Practical.

[gabrielhorse.livejournal.com]

I like the comparision between horse vs. auto... hopefully you'll keep us updated on this ^_^

Re: Practical.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Well, it's hardly authoritative and will vary greatly from one part of the country to another. Just a rough summary for my situation, which was easy to assemble.

Re: Practical.

[gabrielhorse.livejournal.com]

Heh, you undercut your own opinion too much... most people inflate theirs and act like it means everything- you seem to do the opposite. Still, your comparision is helpful for curious people or people who haven't travelled using either method in quite a while- like me ^_^

[flamekist.livejournal.com]

Thanks for doing the research on this. I found myself thinking about this just last week but had no idea about the costs of keeping a horse.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. It's just a rough estimate and really only applies to my personal location and needs, but it does give some idea. The cost of veterinary and farrier care will vary greatly from one part of the country to another. I have no idea whether I'm getting a cheap or an expensive deal, though I suspect we're on the cheap end of the scale here. Feed costs vary even more wildly by region. I'm fortunate enough to live in an area where there is still active farming. I buy hay directly from the farmer who grows it, just a few miles down the road from me. We've bought from him every year since 1999, so we are among his top priority customers and he tries to hold our prices down as much as he can. (I only have 5 acres, which isn't enough to grow my own hay supply, though about half of it is in pasture grass and my horse gets part of her summer food requirements from it.)

It would cost more in the city or suburbs, because feed would have to be shipped in. At present, horse veterinary services and farriery may not be available in most suburban areas, and often the local laws ban keeping of "livestock" which would include a horse used for transportation. I suppose getting those laws changed would become easier once the roads are littered with dead vehicles for which no more fuel can be obtained...

[flamekist.livejournal.com]

Where I live, horse ownership seems to be limited to those belonging to exclusive riding clubs, so I'm sure things would be on the expensive side over here. Not that I was seriously considering getting a horse, LOL! (Lack of money, space, and time to devote to him/her, and especially having the office building manager having a fit at finding a horse grazing in the landscaping!) But it was nice to remember back to my childhood days of horseback riding through the woods.

Alas, I'll just have to stick to riding my 'iron horse' for now. :)

[cozycabbage.livejournal.com]

Well, if you hae a startup cost and a lifespan, you can amortize that do a daily cost.
How long does a car last?
$4000 divided by 17 years is $0.65 per day.
$20,000 divided by... ten years? I have no clue, but I'm assuming that's how long a lucky person will keep a car. $5.47 per day.
So $8.50 for the horse, and $11.80 for the car.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yup, that's about right. At least, as right as this sort of estimate can be. Of course, the car is likely to need at least one major repair during a ten year life span, like a brake job or a wheel bearing replacement.

Ten years is good enough. Most Americans probably keep cars for less than that for one reason or another, but my average for a car purchased new seems to run about nine to ten years. Then, as I've already said, I'm no car enthusiast. If it works, I don't need a new shiny one every couple of years and I don't care if it has the latest "feature" whatever that might be. I want reliable operation and cost economy rather than style and trendiness.

Projected service life for a horse who is properly cared for and not abused or overworked is probably about 20 years starting from age 3 or so when his/her training is complete.

[soanos.livejournal.com]

Where in this wide world can man find nobility without pride,
Friendship without envy,
Or beauty without vanity?
Here, where grace is served with muscle
And strength by gentleness confined
He serves without servility; he has fought without enmity.
There is nothing so powerful, nothing less violent.
There is nothing so quick, nothing more patient.
~Ronald Duncan, "The Horse," 1954

How many cars you know you can say the same about?
The answer is none.

A horse is also a friend and a family member. Not many cars can match that. Knight Industries Two Thousand doesn't count, it is a fictional character. :P

Car or a horse? A Horse, please.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Aww. I wouldn't mind being your horse, I think.

[soanos.livejournal.com]

Heh. Thank you fo rthe offer, but I would have discuss with my partner about it first. :)

But I say you'd be cared for very much ;)

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

What about the emission control problem ;)
Still your thoughts did conjure up a picture of the cities with people horsing it. I don't think I'd like to leave my horse at work all day, I think he/she would get bored.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Heh. Like some people I know, eating and sleeping are horses' number one priority. They don't get bored easily as long as there's hay or grass available.

Emission control is not a problem. See prior discussion here. In cities, yes, regular street cleaning is needed, but that was just part of the normal process a century ago and would be relatively easy to reinstate.

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

I'd probably have a nice chestnut or paint horsie :) *Imagines petrol stations with hay bales and water troughs and people still going in to buy snacks and a horse wash bay :D* Hmmm they'd have to raise the levels in multi-story parks o.O

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Probably not hay, it's too bulky and takes too long to eat. Working horses get a lot more grain though and I suppose there might be a market for "horse lunches" just like fast food for humans. Ick.

Sign outside that multi-story park: "Ponies only. Draft breeds must use lot one block south."

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

Hehe, and spaces that say, "For Ponies only" "Other Horses use full size spaces"