TGIF

[altivo]

Seriously. This week was way too full as well as too long.

I may have done something I'll regret in the end. In a writing forum I've helped moderate for many months now, we've had a young guy appear who claims he wants to write, but seems unable to put together a single sentence without misspelling half the words, leaving out all the punctuation, and making all of us struggle to get what he's saying. (No, I don't think it's dyslexia or a disability, but rather just plain failure to put in an effort.)

In the midst of a discussion about how an erotic story is NOT just a sex scene, but a whole lot of development and tension that might even omit the actual sex, he popped up with "Oh, so you mean I should put in more hugging and kissing?"

Sigh. After pursuing this explanation for a while, I posted this:

Well, you're getting the idea. As I said, there has to a be a story, and the sex is not the story. Ask yourself "Why are they doing this?" and ask it again and again on every page.

Then remember you can't just put in a lot of "because" stuff. That doesn't make a story either. Instead you have to show why. Show things happening that explain it, or at least give an idea of what's going on.

If I were a writing teacher, I think the first assignment I'd give to new furry writers is this:

Write a story with at least two characters, in which the reader thinks there will be a sex scene but it never happens. Make it convincing, and interesting, Even make it a terrible tease if you like, but it must be believable, and in the end the reader should either like or dislike each character and be able to say why. Oh, and did I mention, no real sex happens. They may think about it a lot, talk about it, even lie about it, but no sex happens. Minimum length should be about 4000 words. Maximum perhaps 7500 words.

This is not a difficult assignment, really. But it may make you think harder about what you are doing when writing erotica.

End result? He says he's taking me up on it. This means I'll have to endure reading the 4000 words of it and then critique it. Sigh. Never pays to open your mouth.

Comments

[hrrunka]

I hope the story he comes up with shows he's taken at least some of your points to heart, but I get the impression you won't be holding your breath...

[altivo]

He posted 4000+ words in less than two hours. As you might guess, it's very difficult to follow a thread of thought in it, much less find a storyline or character development. That's even without considering the incredible task of penetrating the malaprops, misspellings, and lack of punctuation.

Why I'm not a college professor, in a nutshell.

[hrrunka]

Oh dear...

[moonhare]

"...rather just plain failure to put in an effort."

Maybe he'll do better with your challenge. Hopefully he's not just fussing with you.

[altivo]

He's already posted a response. Maybe I'm wrong and there's a learning disability involved here if he can't see the difference between what he posted and any kind of coherent writing. It has a rude and ragged resemblance to English, but only just.

[treppenwolf]

Lol, 'Tivo. And here I was about to say you'd make a great writing teacher! :)

You *do* seem to be getting through to him, though. Maybe next you can stress the importance of taking grammar seriously? He seems to listen to you. :P

[altivo]

If he listens, he apparently can't perceive the difference between the way we write and the way he does. I seriously wonder whether English is his native language, or if he might have a learning disability of some sort.

He's not stupid, but his perceptions seem to be somehow skewed.

[treppenwolf]

My mom's a developmental psychologist who handles such problem cases. I could ask her opinion... but that would mean admitting I'm on a writing forum. It's not so much the writing I'm ashamed of as the persona I present online; I'm much less inhibited than in real life (aren't we all), and some - okay, most - of the things I say would embarrass me.

Back to the point, though - maybe his continuous exposure to RPs has eroded his capacity to perceive English correctly? I think the problem has more to do with attitude, but I could be wrong.

[altivo]

Unless you and I have a very different idea of what RP means, then I can't attribute it to that. I suppose RP may have degenerated so far in the five years or so since I participated in it to any significant degree, but I rather doubt it.

It's true that I find more and more kids in their teens who are completely at a loss when it comes to writing, because schools in the US seem to have dropped the subject from their curricula entirely. They don't get the exposure, or the exercise, and certainly not the discipline and correction needed to get the rules of basic grammar, spelling and punctuation into their minds. "Writing" to them is what they do when they send text messages to each other, and of course that is hardly the kind of example they need.

In my last college job (1994-2001) it seemed that fully half of the incoming freshman class was in need of remedial reading and writing classes.

[treppenwolf]

Ouch. I didn't think you had that problem in the US as well. It just puzzles me how schools could dispense with such an indispensable subject as reading or writing. I can understand dropping, say, Latin or Greek, but writing (and, I guess, the corresponding thinking skills) is anything but irrelevant.

I have a "writer" friend over here who boasts that she's been writing for some six or seven years. When I first met her, I tried to engage her in excited discussions about writing and literature, but she kept complaining about how Orwell was too depressing and who was Mark Twain and didn't Roald Dahl just write kiddie books. Far from the writerly debates I'd hoped for, but what can we do. It's just sad that, when she claims she's well-read "even for college students" here, I'd have no choice but to agree.

[kakoukorakos.livejournal.com]

Before he gets too far into it, you might want to lay down some basic rules, namely, that he must use proper spelling, punctuation, and grammar. If he doesn't achieve reasonable success at that, send it back until he does. Seriously, it's generous enough that you're offering to read & critique the composition for form and substance. You shouldn't have to put in extraordinary effort to decipher what he's trying to say because he's lazy.

This is actually not far removed from a post I was just working on myself. I think that the worst teachers are the ones who tolerate laziness and incompetence, and put more effort into explanation than direction. Detailed explanations only put the burden on the instructor, the student stays ignorant. Guidance is short and to the point, and leaves the bulk of the work involved with understanding and interpretation on the student. Yeah, some "students" will get mad if you don't just do the work for them, but fuck them. They're not really students, they're mooches, trying to leech your knowledge and ability.

[altivo]

I did try to make that clear in an additional comment directed specifically to him. Looking at the result, I can't really say that it made much difference, and I dropped a hint that it was still a problem. He doesn't see it. His response was that Word didn't underline it all in red.

No surprise. Much of what he writes can be taken as normal words, except they are homophones or near-homophones of the words he actually means. Word isn't going to get that. Nor is it going to get the dropped endings for case or number, or the misused ones.

[kakoukorakos.livejournal.com]

Misplaced homophones happen, but what you're describing is borderline illiteracy. I had a great-grandmother on my father's side who was much the same way, she could more-or-less read and write. However, she couldn't even spell her own name correctly most of the time, and as a result, my family name is STILL misspelled. In that she likely only had a 5th-grade education, if even that, it's not surprising.

I remember there used to be quite an adult literacy campaign running in the 80s. Many sitcoms and dramas had at least one token episode where a character was hiding a dirty secret, that he or she was unable to read. The absence of such plot elements over the past 20 years or so might make one think that the plague of illiteracy has been largely eradicated, but some of the things I've been seeing lately make it appear that maybe it's just more socially-acceptable to present oneself as a dimwit.

[altivo]

To some extent, I'm afraid you're right. Television and film, the icon-makers of this generation, have depicted illiteracy and dimness as "cute" and "funny" and even "heroic." This plays up to an audience that is more than a little dim in most cases, so it's a positive feedback loop.

When I was a kid, reading "too much" was treated as "uncool" but now it's considered downright weird.

[farthing]

Yeah, that's the annoying side of teaching someone something, seeing how badly it has stuck into their brain... ^^;

Though I think it wouldn't even require reading it all to flunk it, unless he can actually climb out from his hole of chat speak, and produce something readable. :-)

[altivo]

I just sent him a detailed critique of one paragraph, pointing out all the corrections needed just to make his version grammatically acceptable.

Then I rewrote the paragraph in half as many words and far fewer sentences, so he could see what is possible. It should be interesting to see how he responds to this.

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

I think it's good of you Pony though it may vex you so :)
I'm sure you've noticed that signpost on this road and look what it's paved with ;)
I was lucky enough to have some semblance of grammar which I thank my father for.

[altivo]

I guess they don't make kids write in high school any more. Even in college they get through without ever having to do any significant writing. Essay questions and formal papers were the rule when I was in high school, and in college we had to do 30 and 40 page papers and original research. Now everything is just "blacken in the letter of the correct answer."

[erkhyan]

*ahem*

Late response, but yeah, I'm amazed that you took up trying to get hrough to him. I've been struggling not to leave snarky comments at his behavior...

Now though, one request. Can you please, PLEASE ask him not to apply the "That's hot! 5 stars!" rule on the main site? As a reader rather than a reviewer, I found it annoying last time I checked the recent submissions...

[altivo]

I never meant to get myself into that position, and if you followed the aftermath you saw that it did not get through to him in the least.

I'm sure any effort to control his "reviews" would be equally futile. He simply doesn't get the fact that we are not SoFurry.