Fourth Amendment Rights

[altivo]

Written more than two centuries ago, these words or their authors could never have imagined the internet, the telephone network, or the image communication formats we have available to us today. However, I am entirely certain that these writers would have included such information explicitly could they have known of it.

Tell the government, Congress, the NSA, and the Obama administration that enough is enough. The Patriot Act is an unconscionable violation of the 4th amendment to the US Constitution, and it always has been such. Now that we know of some of the abuses being perpetrated under cover of that heinous and illegitimate law, it is time for us to stop them. Click on the image above for more information about what you can do.

Comments

[dakhun.livejournal.com]

I don't think that the 4th amendment has anything to do with it. The Obama admin. is spying on everyone everywhere in the world that it can, and Obama justifies it by saying that everyone is spying on him too. He just sounds like a paranoid little weenie, so nothing is going to stop it but the end of his term.

[altivo]

Most of the programs in question were started under George W. Bush, and Obama just kept them going instead of doing the right thing and shutting them down. I agree that Obama has proven almost entirely useless as a president, and has weaseled on just about everything he ever promised. People keep pointing to the health care act, but that's a disaster in waiting and will not be a long term improvement. It still leaves the whole thing in the hands of private industries whose sole goals are profit, nothing humanitarian or caring.

The end of Obama's term will make no difference. A GOP administration elected by backlash is likely to be worse. A Democrat administration, if it happens, will be just as wimpy and spineless as Obama has been.

[dakhun.livejournal.com]

If kicking the guy out who's solely responsible for those programs continuing to exist today will do nothing, then I'm not sure what you think a constitutional challenge would accomplish. You may be taking the wind out of your own sails here.

[altivo]

No constitutional challenge has yet been mounted against the Patriot Act. It is way overdue.

Note what even the conservative courts did to DOMA and Proposition 8 once they were given a chance to rule on them. I'm convinced that the only reason section 2 of DOMA wasn't trashed as well was that the boundaries of the existing case did not include it and conservatives are very reluctant to step beyond the immediate scope. It will fall as soon as a serious challenge is mounted (at great expense, unfortunately.) The same is true of most of the Patriot Act.

Complaining and protesting gains little, it's true. Court challenges often work, though. With funding from EFF, ACLU, Google, etc. this could happen. We do however need to keep reminding people that they are responsible for the morons sitting in Congress and the White House. Instead of voting blindly or based on single issues, voters need to be responsible for their choices.

[dakhun.livejournal.com]

I just see the DOJ being directed in such and such a way and the SCOTUS never even touching it.

Besides, as I pointed out in my first comment, this is a far far bigger issue than spying being done on Americans. The US is basically spying on the whole world in much of a similar fashion, where the 4th amendment is not applicable. Whether or not having a different president would stop that is debatable, but that IS the only way it could possibly be stopped. You really couldn't do worse than Bush or Obama, so I like the chances afforded by even some random guy as president instead of those two.

[altivo]

We could have had Mitt Romney or John McCain, far worse than Obama. As always, party politics in the US boils down to a choice between two evils where you try to neutralize the worst possibilities.

Bill Clinton was the same, a sexist, a wimp, lacking conviction and guts. But his opponents were far worse.

[dakhun.livejournal.com]

Mitt Romney and John McCain aren't random NEW people though.
I'm more favourable to the outcome of another election in large part because some of the most awful choices imaginable have been eliminated in this last election.

If progressives want, they can ask the candidates in the next election repeated questions about this and make it an election issue whether the candidates want it or not.

[avon_deer]

Is there anything *I* can do? I have sadly kinda been intimidated into silence on this issue :(

[altivo]

Nothing you can do about the US, I suspect. I understand similar spying tactics are in force over there, but I'm not sufficiently familiar with UK laws and policy to advise you on them.

[avon_deer]

We have means of protesting, but they are frequently ignored. This is how the elite view "the ordinary people" in the UK >>

http://bobbiblogger.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/trickle-down.jpg

[altivo]

The same applies here. In fact, that's a photo with Ronald Reagan on the left, the original perpetrator of the "trickle-down" lies.