Tivo gets on a soapbox
Apr. 1st, 2004 07:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
altivo[sound of a wooden box being dragged into position]
I have no idea whether anyone is reading this, but I am miffed enough that I have to say it. I am going to describe an incident without giving any names other than my own. Those who were present will recognize it if they should ever read this. Those who were not may learn something nonetheless.
It took place on Furrymuck, a few hours ago, in the Purple Nurple. Now I am perfectly aware that crowded, popular places are spammy. They are full of multiple threads of conversation, the messages generated by people coming, going, connecting, disconnecting. That is not what I am complaining about. If you go into such a place, you expect that, just as you expect noise in a crowded restaurant or pub in real life. No, what I am steamed about is simple rudeness, deliberately acted upon.
A conversation between Tivo and another developed into a brief RP. It was clear enough to those present that something at least partly ICish was going on. I quote:
As the RP continued (not spammy, only an occasional two or three line pose among the usual OOC conversation) a point was reached where 'mana' was mentioned. The concept of mana is an ancient one that refers to the life force and the idea of giving or sharing energy. Whether the onlookers understood that or not, there was no necessity for what followed. This simply amounts to heckling, making fun of someone else's serious interaction:
There was more, but I'm sure you get the picture by now. Once it became clear that two of us were trying to do something explicitly detailed and IC, others had to play critic and try to break it up with insulting jokes. Why not just let it be? We were causing no more spam than the other things happening in the room. We were doing nothing offensive, nothing off color, nothing rude.
I realize that there can be a number of factors in this. There's a clique, and Tivo is partly an outsider. Perhaps the other player was as well, I am not sure. The other player was directing the nature and course of the RP at this point, and perhaps he has done something very similar before and some were viewing it as a trite repeat or something like that. Some people become jealous when there is activity and they are not involved or at the center of it, so they feel they have to belittle it or break it up. Perhaps some of the hecklers have some reason to dislike Tivo or his partner in this RP. I cannot be sure of the reasons, though I suspect some of it is just people following a bad example without understanding how rude they are being.
I don't believe there was anything deliberately malicious going on here. I am not accusing anyone of that. I am, however accusing people of being insensitive to the feelings of others, engaging in mildly insulting behavior of the sort that hurts feelings and damages self-images in some cases. There is no need for this, and it should stop. Please think about what you are doing. If you must make commentary on something that is obviously intended as RP and not idle chit-chat, pass the comments among yourselves as pages or something. If you really think something is happening that one of the participants needs to be warned about, do it privately in a page or whisper rather than by dropping insulting or humorous remarks into the room at large.
I realize that Furrymuck is a mixed OOC and IC environment, and that policy and enforcement is fairly loose. I do not object to that situation, and I would never run to admin to complain about a little thing like this. On the other hand, I am very disappointed in the community of people who were involved here. This behavior was insulting and unjustified. It broke the spell for at least one of the participants (me) and that should not have happened.
For those who are not active on Tapestries, let me just point out that on that muck, a popular gathering place called the Tavern, which had long been established there, was recently closed and recycled by the wizards. Their reason? Behavior just like what I have described above. Heckling, insulting attempts at RP when made by those who were not members of the dominant clique, and repeated rudeness. I certainly hope that would not happen on Furrymuck, it seemed rather high-handed to me. But now that I have been the target of this sort of thing, I can also understand why it was considered so vicious and inappropriate.
Please think about this. No one forces you to participate in an RP that doesn't interest you. By the same token, though, there is no need and no justification for you to make insulting remarks or criticisms of that RP just because you don't care for it. I am thick skinned enough to get over this quickly, but not everyone is. And I am disappointed in the Nurple clientele, whom I had previously considered to be among the more accepting and tolerant groups on this particular muck.
[sound of box being kicked aside by a large equine hoof]
I have no idea whether anyone is reading this, but I am miffed enough that I have to say it. I am going to describe an incident without giving any names other than my own. Those who were present will recognize it if they should ever read this. Those who were not may learn something nonetheless.
It took place on Furrymuck, a few hours ago, in the Purple Nurple. Now I am perfectly aware that crowded, popular places are spammy. They are full of multiple threads of conversation, the messages generated by people coming, going, connecting, disconnecting. That is not what I am complaining about. If you go into such a place, you expect that, just as you expect noise in a crowded restaurant or pub in real life. No, what I am steamed about is simple rudeness, deliberately acted upon.
A conversation between Tivo and another developed into a brief RP. It was clear enough to those present that something at least partly ICish was going on. I quote:
"A" o.O RP in the nurple? Geeze, april 1 is a wierd day. "B" hehs. |
As the RP continued (not spammy, only an occasional two or three line pose among the usual OOC conversation) a point was reached where 'mana' was mentioned. The concept of mana is an ancient one that refers to the life force and the idea of giving or sharing energy. Whether the onlookers understood that or not, there was no necessity for what followed. This simply amounts to heckling, making fun of someone else's serious interaction:
Tivo nickers, "A thing we have an endless supply of, if we can find it in ourselves and give it away." "C" checks his pockets, but finds more banana than mana. "D" says, "Maybe it's a manabanana." "C" says, "Nah. Nah." "D" won't even go into the whole manana thing. "E" says, "Bananabandana?" Tivo shushes the jokers. This is a serious RP, guys. "F" says, "Ooh. Bananamana. Didn't they make the charts with Venus? :)" "C" says, "Besides, (He gets sentimental), the stuff we have an endless supply of, if we can find it in ourselves to give it away, is love, isn't it?" [almost putting a finger on the point here, yet the heckling continues --ed.] "G" notes nurple is notoriously bad place for RP. Eventually the critics gang up and spam everyone trying to play a character to heck. [exactly my point --ed.] |
There was more, but I'm sure you get the picture by now. Once it became clear that two of us were trying to do something explicitly detailed and IC, others had to play critic and try to break it up with insulting jokes. Why not just let it be? We were causing no more spam than the other things happening in the room. We were doing nothing offensive, nothing off color, nothing rude.
I realize that there can be a number of factors in this. There's a clique, and Tivo is partly an outsider. Perhaps the other player was as well, I am not sure. The other player was directing the nature and course of the RP at this point, and perhaps he has done something very similar before and some were viewing it as a trite repeat or something like that. Some people become jealous when there is activity and they are not involved or at the center of it, so they feel they have to belittle it or break it up. Perhaps some of the hecklers have some reason to dislike Tivo or his partner in this RP. I cannot be sure of the reasons, though I suspect some of it is just people following a bad example without understanding how rude they are being.
I don't believe there was anything deliberately malicious going on here. I am not accusing anyone of that. I am, however accusing people of being insensitive to the feelings of others, engaging in mildly insulting behavior of the sort that hurts feelings and damages self-images in some cases. There is no need for this, and it should stop. Please think about what you are doing. If you must make commentary on something that is obviously intended as RP and not idle chit-chat, pass the comments among yourselves as pages or something. If you really think something is happening that one of the participants needs to be warned about, do it privately in a page or whisper rather than by dropping insulting or humorous remarks into the room at large.
I realize that Furrymuck is a mixed OOC and IC environment, and that policy and enforcement is fairly loose. I do not object to that situation, and I would never run to admin to complain about a little thing like this. On the other hand, I am very disappointed in the community of people who were involved here. This behavior was insulting and unjustified. It broke the spell for at least one of the participants (me) and that should not have happened.
For those who are not active on Tapestries, let me just point out that on that muck, a popular gathering place called the Tavern, which had long been established there, was recently closed and recycled by the wizards. Their reason? Behavior just like what I have described above. Heckling, insulting attempts at RP when made by those who were not members of the dominant clique, and repeated rudeness. I certainly hope that would not happen on Furrymuck, it seemed rather high-handed to me. But now that I have been the target of this sort of thing, I can also understand why it was considered so vicious and inappropriate.
Please think about this. No one forces you to participate in an RP that doesn't interest you. By the same token, though, there is no need and no justification for you to make insulting remarks or criticisms of that RP just because you don't care for it. I am thick skinned enough to get over this quickly, but not everyone is. And I am disappointed in the Nurple clientele, whom I had previously considered to be among the more accepting and tolerant groups on this particular muck.
[sound of box being kicked aside by a large equine hoof]
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-04-01 08:18 pm (UTC)A) You have no sense of humor.
B) There are thousands of rooms on FurryMUCK. You chose the one populated by people who were either not amenable to your RP or were going to participate in ways you didn't enjoy. When that became obvious, you didn't find another room.
C) By bringing your private IC roleplay to a public OOC location, you are making that RP available to anyone present. To expect everyone to ignore you or to play by your rules is insensitive to those around you, not vice versa.
Private roleplay is for private locations. Public roleplay is for locations that cater to roleplaying. Roleplay in a public undesignated area at your own risk. And if you were truly thick-skinned, I wouldn't have to be writing this.
The Nurple is not conducive to hard-core roleplay unless you intend to play along just like you expect everyone else to do for you.
Humor
Date: 2004-04-02 02:31 am (UTC)Since you were present, you surely know these things. The RP came about because of the setting, rather than being 'brought there'. Imagine for a moment that the characters involved were entirely real. Think of the focus of the jokes, and you will see that it was not my skin that was injured. From my point of view, almost all the insult was directed at the other character. Tivo was only a good-hearted and cooperative participant.
Much of the conversation that passes in the Nurple is humorous in one way or another. There are many kinds of humor too. In the sense that I do not care for humor that finds its basis in insult, perhaps you are right after all. Someone trying to be kind doesn't seem very humorous to me. I will grant (and did, above) that there may be a larger context unknown to me in which it seemed funny, but if that were the case, then a simple explanation by anyone when I asked for it afterward (and I did) would have been appropriate.
I admit readily that I am an outsider. As such, perhaps I am out of line in my criticism. But I still think there is no need for the environment to be quite so inhospitable.
Re: Humor
Date: 2004-04-02 06:36 am (UTC)The humor present during your RP was not insulting, it was friendly ribbing. No one was calling anyone names or making personal attacks. The humor, even from your example above, was simple wordplay games by bored people. It goes on every day in the Nurple between everyone who participates there, you and your friend are not exempt. You've taken the entire event far too personally, but you need to understand that you were a mime in a biker bar.
You and your friend are perfectly welcome in the Nurple, the environment is not inhospitable, it is simply not conducive to serious roleplay. Your quote from the event above even shows someone trying to warn you of this. If you insist on pursuing it there, you have to adapt to the environment, the environment is not going to adapt to you.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-07 06:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-07 07:59 am (UTC)Frankly, I'd suggest that the fact that you felt a need to say this, so long after the fact, indicates the need for help is on your side, not mine.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-07 02:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-07 02:43 pm (UTC)