altivo: The Clydesdale Librarian (Wet Altivo)
[personal profile] altivo
There was a time when books were the exclusive province of the wealthy and the cleric. Neither literacy nor access to the printed word were available to any other socioeconomic class.

Now school administrators in America are deliberately working to recreate that situation.

Exclusive Boston school dumps library completely

No, you idiots, it isn't "all on the internet" yet. Maybe in another century or so it will be, but I doubt it. Buying a few Kindles and circulating them among your students is not a replacement for a library. The number of important works still relevant to education that are not yet available on the Kindle or the internet is still larger than the number that can be found there. A $50,000 coffee shop with an $11,000 espresso maker is never going to serve as a replacement for a real library with a real librarian or two.

It's very obvious that these so-called educators have narrowed down the definition of education to include only "job readiness" and "hireability" and have completely forgotten the importance of breadth, exposure, and serendipity in exposure to literature, history, and, most importantly, VALUES. That last is exactly what these guys lack. I would not send my children to such a school.

Date: 2009-09-04 07:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avon-deer.livejournal.com
I must admit, I do not read books as much as I used to. I need to get back into it. I'd never consider actually closing a school library though. Even in this day and age.

Date: 2009-09-04 07:58 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (wet altivo)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
I'm willing to bet that the administrators who made this decision do not read books either. Their notion of "education" is limited to "being able to get a job" rather than being able to adapt, improvise, and adjust to changes.

A highly specialized school, such as a law school, can get by today without a large print library. A generalized school, such as a college, university, or secondary school, though... This is utter stupidity, it really is. What these idiotic administrators are saying is that any book older than 20 years, or written in a language other than English, is "irrelevant" and not needed. Any new book from a small publisher is "irrelevant" and not needed. Any book not carried by Amazon is "irrelevant" and not needed. It's a funny sort of censorship, imposed entirely on an economic basis. And that's why I equate it with the medieval approach to literature and literacy.

Date: 2009-09-04 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] megadog.livejournal.com
No doubt in the middle-ages the Monastic keepers-of-the-libraries-of-illuminated-manuscripts viewed Gutenberg and his printing-press with equal horror.

I guess it's all a matter of timing. Whether it is *yet* time to dispense with hardcopy books I'm somewhat unsure. But believe me that time is not far off. I tell people on the courses I give that the half-life of the course-content is typically 18 months (and no this is not a cynical way to secure repeat-business from them in 18 months time).

To be honest, these days I rarely refer to my collection of traditional dead-tree-edition books - mainly because they're all rather old [believe me, a five-year-old biochemistry pharmacology or legal textbook is not only amusing, it's positively *dangerous*].

Date: 2009-09-04 08:19 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (wet altivo)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
I'm not talking about technical education here. I still firmly believe that real education requires a grounding in the humanities: history, literature, and social science. Electronic media alone have not begun to encompass those fields because there's not enough "profit" in it for the producers and distributors.

Technical education, or specialized fields such as law, have now moved into the range where I agree, they can be managed largely without printed matter.

A world in which education no longer includes an adequate exposure to the humanities, however, is going to be a cold, nasty, and brutish world indeed. I don't want to live in it, nor do I want to contribute to its development.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] megadog.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-04 08:34 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-04 10:01 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2009-09-04 09:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com
So their plan is to project "data from the Internet." Instead of having an actual library with actual books. But no, because apparently the absolute single most vital thing they could have can be replaced with "three large flat-screen TVs".

This is beyond ridiculous. In fact, it's fast approaching tragic, and I mean tragic in the no-nonsense, dynasty-collapsing, old-school Greek sense of the word. I can't even begin to describe how patently idiotic this is. I mean, what is this? What is this rubbish?

Date: 2009-09-04 09:50 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (studious)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
The sad answer is, it's the US in action as world leader and trend-setter, of course. The nation where profitability comes before any other value in all facets of life. Where appearance counts more than substance.

Over the last year or two I've watched a struggling nearby college, one that has been in operation for over a century, as it systematically pillaged its library. They sold off the rare books first because they needed money. Then the reference books (because it's all on the internet, you know.) Eventually they were selling off the furniture and the artwork that had been donated to the library by alumni over the decades. The latest? They've stopped the funds for purchasing any new library materials at all, in order to use them to improve the appearance of buildings elsewhere on campus with paint and other superficials. (Not even critical repairs like leaky roofs or the potholes in their pavement.)

I suspected you'd be in agreement with me on this. I'm surprised, though, at the large number of people (most of them under 30) who don't think it matters at all. This is a very bad thing in my opinion.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-04 10:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-04 10:40 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 02:08 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2009-09-04 09:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] canid-anubis.livejournal.com
I'd have to admit that the library is one of the places I really look at when I consider what school to send my kid to. I've told her many times that all of the real learning that I considered I had done in public school was done on my own, in the library. And as you point out, often that might be done by simply wandering the rows and seeing what jumps out at you and not having been limited to what key words that I knew I was looking for on the net.
I can not fathom, what with all the people that would happily donate books to a school library, that there should ever be cause not to have one, even if they only had a real librarian once a week.

Lastly, as an aside, books are simply something that a lot of the underprivlidged don't have access to any other way. There was a poor urban youth, 3rd grader that didn't read well, a few years ago in a school where my wife was PTA pres. One of the mothers was telling her about this kid and how a teacher caught him red handed with a book shoved in his waistband as he was trying to steal it from the library and how they simply didn't need that sort of kid in their school. The mother was hoping that they'd suspend him and make an example. My wife asked me what I'd do. I said that I'd have given the kid the book and written it off. But as that wasn't likely to fly, I'd have gotten the kid to sign out the book directly, let him have it, and then see if there wasn't a way to get him a bag of similar books to help him with his reading and to foster that interest, all the while explaining that stealing is wrong, of course.

But to tell all those kids that don't have PCs, and might not have a convienient public library, etc, that they are no longer able to have books as a resource would be a real crime. To deny them the smell of old books, the tangible feeling of someone's story or work reaching fruition, to keep them from learning how to research via paper, film or fiche vs. text, that's as annoying to me as teachers no longer teaching cursive to kids. I can only imagine how much more annoying it is for you :)

Date: 2009-09-04 09:57 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (studious)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Yep. And yet, a lot of folks seem to think I'm just being defensive about my job. That is hardly the case. I'm within a few years of retirement age anyway, so it won't matter to me in that respect.

What does matter to me is that the internet is ephemeral and incomplete. Sure, you can read Shakespeare off the net if you really want to, but what about Lionel Johnson? What about Gerard Manley Hopkins (not his poems, those are probably out there, but his history of Hawaii?) What about the letters of Mark Twain or Thomas Jefferson? The poems of Badger Clark or Banjo Patterson?

The sheer volume of our literary and historical heritage still is largely absent from electronic formats, and even if someone values it enough to convert it all (like Project Gutenberg) we won't be seeing even half of it there for many years yet.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] canid-anubis.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-04 10:02 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-04 10:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 02:14 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2009-09-04 11:32 pm (UTC)
ext_238564: (Default)
From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com
There's so much that would be lost in a world with a digital-only library. One of my biggest concerns has been how poorly laid-out digital books and reference might be. There are valuable clues to the formatting of text that help readers comprehend the material. But that's the sort of thing web browsers don't do well yet, and that are compromised by all the do-it-yourselfers and computer programmers who are untrained in layout and design. Maybe the digital tools and the skills of those who wield them will someday come up to the task. It's dicey, though.

Not to mention that, if the electricity goes out, a digital book isn't even good for a paperweight.

That's not to discount the sensual physicality of the books, not in the least. I'm trying, in my head, to play devil's advocate, just to understand the issue. In a world where the intricacies of Mozart's or Bach's composition are becoming less appreciated, or where sporting achievements unaided by chemical supplements are no longer valued, getting young people—any people (that Boston headmaster ain't that young)—to appreciate the sight and smell and feel of a roomful of books might be a Sisyphean task. As long as we have our libraries for our own use, is it just as well to leave the modern world to its follies? ... gawd that sounds pessimistic.

I'm just reminded of part of the PBS commercial for the Ken Burns National Parks: America's Best Idea program, where the narrator (think it's still author Nevada Barr, here) tells of a tourist who comes up to the Yosemite park ranger and asks "I only have an hour to see Yosemite... if you had an hour, what would you do?" And the ranger says "If I only had an hour, I would go over there, sit on that rock, and I'd cry." I'm not the biggest library patron, and I do have a horse in the race as I spend my workdays typesetting books, but in a world without physical books in libraries (or bookstores), I'd probably sit on a rock and cry a lot.

Date: 2009-09-05 12:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] canid-anubis.livejournal.com
"If I only had an hour, I would go over there, sit on that rock, and I'd cry."

What a perfect response :)

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 01:04 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 02:16 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2009-09-05 12:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keeganfox.livejournal.com
It's so much easier to control the masses when they depend on you for the information they "need". Why think for yourself when the system tell you what you need to know?

Date: 2009-09-05 02:17 am (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (altivo blink)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Yes, why think indeed when you can be entertained by FOX network and their inflammatory commentators? Therein lies the rub: It is much easier to not think than it is to actually think for oneself.

Date: 2009-09-05 12:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] merik.livejournal.com
It's a troubling trend. I've seen many of the same arguments used to justify the closing of university's Physical Sciences Library at the end of this year in an attempt to help close the budget gap - "Oh, it's all just science, and all that stuff is online, so there's no need for actual printed books/journals". Although online references have their uses, I'm all in favor of physical, hardcopy reference material, for many reasons. Every science department has argued against the closing, and rightfully so, but all the administration can see is that online "solution" to part of their budget crisis...

Date: 2009-09-05 02:19 am (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (studious)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Ugly news. And I thought you were at one of the more respectable universities, too. Don't accreditation associations look askance at this sort of thing?

Date: 2009-09-05 02:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] equusmaximus.livejournal.com
It's certainly a sad day when you hear about things like this. While I haven't been the greatest library patron myself the last few years (just waaaaayyy too busy!) I always kept my library card dues paid up, just in case. When I was younger, I practically lived in the library, either at school or at one of the public libraries.

Wasn't it the massive libary of Alexandria that was destroyed by the Romans? How much knowledge was lost there, and how far back did that set Humanity as a result? You would think that Scholars, of all people, would recognize the fallacy of their actions.

"It's all in the Internet" indeed. Who needs The Encyclopedia Britannica when you have Wikipedia? :P

Date: 2009-09-05 02:22 am (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Yes, and especially when Wikipedia is free but Britannica costs money.

It's a very odd set of values. These are the same people who will never consider using free software, because "you get what you pay for" but they are willing to rely on the internet as their sole source of scholarly information because "information wants to be free."

Date: 2009-09-05 03:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rustitobuck.livejournal.com
As much as I love technology, I don't think we're anywhere near making a library full of books obsolete. And I'd not advocate the destruction of existing books or the closing of the physical library, ever. There's such a thing as transition, and transition means being able to back up and retry things if one makes a misstep.

I think the Kindle is practical device, and a good start on a viable electronic book. If I were to do something with it in a school, to be really forward thinking, it would be to replace the textbooks. Textbooks are revised quickly, and when they are, these massive tomes go obsolete fast. Big waste of paper when they do, too.

But the biggest problem is that children are saddled down with these huge tomes, and it causes them back problems. Some school districts are supplying books on CD and giving kids laptops. The Kindle is a smaller and more durable device than a laptop.

And maybe I'd put some computer terminals in the library, but I wouldn't get rid of the books. We aren't ready for that part yet, not for a long time.

Date: 2009-09-05 10:57 am (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (altivo blink)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Electronic books can be practical, and readers like the Kindle or Ebookwise are a big step in that direction. You have some good points here, though I have serious issues with the Kindle design in particular. See the thread below about Amazon's ability, which they didn't hesitate to use, to "censor" the contents of their customers' readers. Not only that, but apparently they copied and saved any personal notations those customers had made.

Textbooks are a good example of ways in which technology can be valuable, but I also question the value of making basic texts too malleable. If anyone with the right level of access (which can of course be stolen or forged) can alter or censor the contents of the textbooks, what happens? "School board dissident remotely erases chapters on evolution and sexuality from all textbooks." That's what happens. It's bad enough that this is already being done. Making it easier for those who want to Bowdlerize history and literature is never a good idea. Absolutely never.

Date: 2009-09-05 06:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] calydor.livejournal.com
Relying on Amazon and the Kindle is even more stupid considering the recent recall of 1984, of all stories, which was simply deleted remotely from all Kindles that had downloaded it.

Until Amazon releases a Kindle without remote deletion features, no school should rely on it instead of their library.

And personally? The school library was where I sought refuge through my school years. It was a place to hide out, to just disappear. I can't imagine a school without a library.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] calydor.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 07:01 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 11:00 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 10:47 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] duskwuff.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 05:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 06:02 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] keeganfox.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 08:36 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] calydor.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 08:44 am (UTC) - Expand

Sorry about the length.

Date: 2009-09-05 09:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keeganfox.livejournal.com
They might be old, outdated, and in the case of the "electric candle" arc lamps, completely dangerous. But they are also still accurate in that they haven't changed. We can see, and get an actual, tactile, feel for, how things were in the late 1800s. It's a complete set, half leather bound, and printed with a fine detail missing from so many of today's books. It's from about 1887, and no, they just don't make them like they used to. All hand composited type, and I've yet to find a spelling or punctuation error. Photography was still being invented, so if you wanted to put a picture in a book, you made an engraving. And these engravings are art of themselves.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
An overview of all five volumes, and a page open detailing mirages and optical illusions.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Just inside the cover is this impressive engraving of a limestone cliff. It's printed in the old manner and you can feel the texture of the letters in the paper. Feels like money, and a pleasure to hold.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
A close up of the mirage engraving.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Another engraving showing parahelia, or Mock Suns.

Re: Sorry about the length.

Date: 2009-09-05 10:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zenicurean.livejournal.com
I still think that set is a beauty. (Is is by any chance written by this guy?)

Re: Sorry about the length.

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 11:04 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Sorry about the length.

From: [identity profile] keeganfox.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 04:43 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Sorry about the length.

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 05:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Sorry about the length.

From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-05 12:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2009-09-05 01:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alaskawolf.livejournal.com
thats not a school id ever go to or send some one to.

it would suck to have the internet go out. at least you can read a book when the power is out, a candle or small light goes a long way

Date: 2009-09-05 02:57 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (radio)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Yep. Technology is all well and good, but it almost never justifies abandoning the less complicated methods entirely. The old ways are important as a fallback.

In the case of printed books, the majority of what has been published still remains only on the printed page, and is not accessible by electronic means either paid or public domain. How an institution of education can possibly say that all that mass of material is irrelevant to education and unnecessary is utterly beyond my comprehension.

There are lots of implications that I'm sure were never considered in that decision. For instance, it is not possible to borrow books from other libraries, either in schools or public libraries, unless you have a library and are willing to lend your own books in return. Many of the paid online information services, while available to non-libraries, are considerably less expensive when a bona fide library subscribes to them. It boils down to school administrators who are incompetent. They don't understand the significance or meaning of learning, education, or context. What they evidently understand is superficial imagery, appearances, and the all important profit motive.

Date: 2009-09-05 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vimsig.livejournal.com
Smashing post - it needed to be said

Date: 2009-09-05 05:55 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (wet altivo)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
True. US health care needs to be fixed too, but no matter how many of us say so, it looks like it won't happen. Same is true for this. We've already been on the downward slope of trading book content for "user provided content" for more than a decade.

Date: 2009-09-05 03:49 pm (UTC)
ext_238564: (Default)
From: [identity profile] songdogmi.livejournal.com
The article doesn't say, but maybe the school is across the street from a public library that is maintaining their print collection. That could almost make what the school's doing ... well, less damaging, I guess.

Date: 2009-09-05 04:01 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (wet altivo)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
I suspect if that were the case, then the idiot administrator would have pointed it out. The school is in a high-toned suburb of Boston. Undoubtedly there is a public library somewhere. However, I doubt very much that said library is up to meeting the academic commands of a prep school that aspires to get its students into places like Harvard, Yale, or MIT.

Except for the very largest (New York, Boston, Cleveland, Los Angeles) I'm afraid public libraries are no longer about real education. They are about meeting popular demand, which means lots of copies of the current best sellers and very little else. When I arrived at my present job, the library had just finished moving to a spiffy new building, with lots of light and space. Their only fully qualified librarian (whom I never met, thank god, because I'd probably have killed him) had "weeded" the collection prior to the move. To him, that meant getting rid of everything that looked old, worn, or "not shiny." Consequently, nearly all the classic literature was gone. No Jane Austen, George Eliot, Herman Melville, or even Faulkner, Hemingway, or Fitzgerald. Likewise, many of the famous award-winning children's books were gone.

I've been working for seven years to repair some of that damage, but with limited funding, it isn't easy. I'd like to say that this is a pathological situation, but alas, it is not. The other small libraries in our consortium have similar defects, as a result of similar management over the past 25 years, either by administrators with no library knowledge, or supposedly professionals who obviously had no vision of the role of the library in society and were only concerned with "image" and "cost benefit analysis."

Date: 2009-09-05 08:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] atomicat.livejournal.com
I showed my mom that story and she said "20,00 books? That's nothing! Our high-school library had more books."

Date: 2009-09-05 09:08 pm (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
Depending on how well-selected they are, 20,000 volumes can be the minimum acceptable size for a high school library. And that's what this one was, in the end. A decent four year college in the liberal arts needs ten times that, or more.

Remember that high school students are not usually asked to do original or primary source research. They write short papers in response to question prompts or a selected research topic, summarizing or evaluating things that they read. These days I'm seeing writing being de-emphasized even at the junior college level, because the teachers either don't like to grade it or feel they aren't qualified to do so. It's all in a downhill slide in my opinion. Eventually you will need a four year college degree to get a job at McDonalds in the US. Not because the demands of the job have grown that large, but because the meaning of US diplomas will have shrunken so far.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] atomicat.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-06 03:47 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-06 11:39 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] atomicat.livejournal.com - Date: 2009-09-07 01:44 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2009-09-07 11:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thedeere.livejournal.com
If a library doesn't contain The Boy Electrician and The Boy Chemist by Alfred P. Morgan, it's not a library. The 1800's editions with "How To X-ray Your Sister", not the censored version, preferred.

I doubt a Kindle could even render them without bursting into corporate flame.

Date: 2009-09-08 11:51 am (UTC)
ext_39907: The Clydesdale Librarian (Default)
From: [identity profile] altivo.livejournal.com
I have seen The Boy Electrician before. Even I would hesitate to put that on the shelf these days. Lawsuits would be bound to follow.

November 2024

S M T W T F S
     12
345678 9
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jan. 26th, 2026 11:00 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios