Autumnal

[altivo]

Not much color yet, but dry, cool, with skies of intense blue punctuated with streaks and blobs of white cloud. Tess was glad to go out, reluctant to come back in. There are mosquitoes again, though. We had reached a point where they were almost extinct, and then a few drippy days a couple of weeks ago were enough to bring them back, persistent little demons that they are.

Gasoline prices keep dropping. I paid $2.42 this afternoon, which is the lowest in months though certainly not the lowest in the last year. We bottomed out at $1.45 last December, which must have been the lowest price around here in several years. Farther back than any records I have, at least.

Days keep ticking off too without my getting the work finished that must be done in the next couple of weeks in order to make it into the Fiber shows in October.

Garden lettuce is all gone, or nearly so, but the hot frame yielded mustard greens, arugula, and cilantro for a salad tonight, and added lettuce from the supermarket. It was tasty.

Time to think about NaNoWriMo. Since I will not be interrupting November to attend MFF this year, I should be able to exceed the 50K word quota if I plan my time correctly. The question is, do I return to Argos and Fennec, or perhaps to Jake and Chrysios? I've had a couple of people urging me to revisit Menander even, but I'm not sure he ever attracted a lot of interest. There's at least one side story to Argos and Fennec, as well, and that would be Inspector Hammel's story explaining where he was before he came to Westvale, and how he first met Fennec. It's a good story, but I'm not sure it's large enough for a NaNo project.

Now I'm going to say something inflammatory. There's been a huge pile of dramatic crap about some trash that happened on television this week apparently. Yet another "slur" on the fandom, etc. etc. Two things about that, folks. First of all, it's television. Television is all pretty much crap. It's like tabloid newspapers, you know, the ones in the supermarket with headlines like "Space Aliens Secretly Control Congress" or "Jesus Appears on Jay Leno"? People who want to believe that junk are going to believe it no matter what you say or do. Secondly, though, before you protest too much, it seems to me that furry fandom really is badly fixated on sexuality and losing sight of the art, literature, and other forms of anthropomorphism that are supposedly the core on which it stands.

Yes, going on a television talk show and proclaiming your bizarre sexual fetishes is pretty damned stupid. There's no other word for it. But pointing your paw/muzzle/fin/horn/whatever at someone who did such a stupid thing and blaming them for the bad reputation you think the fandom has? That's equally stupid. The bad reputation would die a deserved death if there were no truth in it. Unfortunately, the is some truth in it and that's enough to keep it alive and make the muck rakers looking for drama and sensational stories come back again and again. What is FA full of? What is YiffStar full of? What are Tapestries and FurryMuck full of? Ask your furry friends why they go to conventions and what they do there. Then tell me there is no truth to the popular perception that furries are obsessed with sexuality. And until you can honestly say that, I will not be impressed with tantrums about "the media" and "stupid spotlight seekers."

Comments

[frith]

I saw a clip of that show with the three couples in beds on stage. I thought the "furry" couple were cute and geeky. I couldn't care less if they had costumes with "strategically placed holes". LOL! As for "furry" conventions, I've been to one. I was there for the art seminars. I would have bought something but I couldn't find _anything_ I liked enough to keep forever.

By the way, you were going to say something inflammatory?

[altivo]

I did. I said that furry drama is stupid, and that those who criticize the idiots who went on television to declare that furry fandom was all about fursuit sex were not the only ones guilty of poisoning the image of the fandom with their obsession about sex. ;p

O furries, let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone!

"Oh, I was... fursuiting. Yeah, that's it."

[dakhun.livejournal.com]

Ask your furry friends why they go to conventions and what they do there. Then tell me there is no truth to the popular perception that furries are obsessed with sexuality.

Or better yet, ask them how come sometimes you DON'T see them for long periods of time at furry cons (that they attended). ;-)

*chuckles*

Re: "Oh, I was... fursuiting. Yeah, that's it."

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yep. I find the whole thing distinctly irritating, in fact. (You may have noticed.)

Of course in a fandom so heavily loaded with hormones due to the immature age of most of the participants, some of this is inevitable. I still feel as if I need to disinfect myself if I spend any time combing through sites like FA for the genuine artwork. The trouble is, it's there. Superb, great master level work, right on FA. Who'd have thought it? Vastly underappreciated by the crowd that tramples on it while sniffing around for the porn, but nonetheless, it exists.

Not everyone goes to furry conventions to have sex. In fact, relatively few of my friends network go there with that in mind at all. But there are enough who do that it lends validity to the accusations. Weaving the analogy out of wool, which is apt for me at least, if you blend ten fleeces together and only nine of them are white, the mixture is still going to be gray in the end.

The gay movement mostly got past this in the end, though it was a screaming drama issue back in the 1970s. "Do we let the leather queens, the trannies, and the NAMBLA people into our parade? They make us look bad. The media focuses on them and makes it sound as if we all are that way..."

I dunno. I hear the same people saying on one day "I can't admit to my boss/mother/girlfriend that I'm a furry, because they'll think I'm a pervert," and the next day they are drooling over some cheap, badly drawn pornographic image of a fox and two elephants doing something absolutely impossible. I want to bite them, shake them by the neck, and scream at them, "You ARE a pervert. Grow up and come to terms with it."

I am a furry. I have been a furry for at least something like 54 years now. If it has a sexual element for me, that's buried very deeply indeed and never surfaces. I do resent the stereotypes, the drama, and the obsession with sex. But it doesn't change my own attachment to the images and central concepts. Even so, I don't think all this drama achieves a thing. It just emphasizes the idiocy. The lady doth protest too much for there to be no truth in the accusation.

[mondhasen.livejournal.com]

There it is. Furry I am, but I rarely use the 'f' word now due to the bad press and media hype (and that's in my bio/furvey). I missed the hype of which you speak, but there're enough bad youtube vids and raging, ragging bloggers out there to emphasize the point you make.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I take an opposite view on that. Just as with the gary rights movement, I think those of us who can stand as better examples and role models need to make ourselves visible. That's what ultimately gained so much ground for GLBT folks in the US, where they were truly treated as pariahs 30 and 40 years ago. Most of those wild stereotypes are losing ground rapidly today as people discover that their friends and relatives are in fact GLBT.

The same would be true of furries. Let the bad ones claim all the publicity and they will own the name and keep the rest of us hiding in a closet. We need more self-promotion, not less, but it should be based on things we do that everyone can appreciate, such as the charity funds raised at conventions or the socially favorable activities of some fursuiters, artists, and writers.

The incident to which I referred apparently involves a couple of self-styled "furries" who went onto one of those abusive television talk shows and essentially presented furry fandom as "people who like to have sex while dressed as animals." Obviously, there are some people like that who involve themselves in some furry fandom activities, for equally obvious reasons. But the ignorance and narrow views of these two characters and of the talk show host cannot be allowed to stand for all of us.

I'm reminded of David Ruben, the 70s author of self-help sex books, who interviewed a few gay men he found hanging around in public restrooms and allowed that to stand for all homosexuals everywhere. Both the author and his interviewees were completely ignorant of the breadth and depth of gay expression and experience, yet they made all-encompassing pronouncements on the subject and were believed by many outsiders for a number of years.

Not to say that furry fandom is a gay movement in any particular way, but there are certainly parallels that should apply. This is why I do not hide my connection with the fandom, and instead try to leverage it (subtly) whenever possible.

[mondhasen.livejournal.com]

"I figger most natcherlists go out an' get acquainted with one grizzly, an' then they write up all grizzlies accordin' to that one. That ain't fair to the grizzlies, darned if it is!"

From The Bear, James Oliver Curwood: Bruce Otto cussing about generalizations, and some of the "fool things" you read in books.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yup, that's it exactly. ;D

[lobowolf.livejournal.com]

Hmm, we're still at $2.55 for gas, although if you go up north 20 miles or so, it's down to $2.47 in spots. I'm still looking at diesel VW's though, because I think when the economy comes back, gas will be right back at $4.00/gallon and up.

In regard to "teh drama," I'll agree that furries make their own gravy, so when they end up stewing in it, there's no surprise. The only thing that bothers me is that a whole string of minor media skirmishes does end up cumulatively forming a public perception, so each time somebody pulls this stunt (usually once a year or so), it inches people's first impressions of furry over into the "-" zone. It used to be "Ha ha, weirdos, but harmless" but lately it seems like it's more "Ewww...weirdos and sexual deviants!" But I suppose for a fandom that regularly and openly associates itself with multiple fetishes, maybe it's surprising that the "fandom"'s reputation isn't worse than it is.

I haven't forgotten about the wolf fur, either. I've been up against the pin all week, so I haven't had a chance to get the package out..will try this weekend. :3

[dakhun.livejournal.com]

maybe it's surprising that the "fandom"'s reputation isn't worse than it is.

You know, the CSI episode "Fur and Loathing" was 6 years ago already. SIX YEARS. I don't think there's been any major bits of "bad press" since then. But with the way some are reacting, you'd think this happens OMG every single day...

[altivo.livejournal.com]

That's because anything of less dramatic value doesn't exist at all. They've been waiting around for another CSI event all this time, and by god they aren't going to miss their chance for paw-wringing and squeals of anguish. ;p

I've seen the CSI episode. It's crap, of course, and anyone with half a brain can see that. I won't be looking at the current thing, because I don't waste time on talk show drivel.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

As you can tell from what I've been writing, I'm not sitting on my paws waiting for Yukon's fur. I'm seriously interested in the project, but have plenty to do until it gets here.

The "Ewww...weirdos and sexual deviants" accusation comes, we have to remember, from people who actually waste their time and brain cells watching these trash television programs. Based on that information alone, I'm willing to discount their opinions completely just as I discount the opinions of someone who "learned all about gays by watching that interview on Donohue with the three porn stars" back in the 80s. Right, sure you did.

[flaredragon.livejournal.com]

That poster of yours just took on a whole new meaning thanks to these two. *chuckles* You bad bad boy, Altivo. How could you do that to the nice librarian?

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yeah, right. You obviously didn't miss all the secret symbolism in the way we were holding our tails for the photo.

[flaredragon.livejournal.com]

It did say you were voracious. Such an appetite!

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Actually, the word "locovore" at the bottom is supposed to be "logovore." Winston is a voracious eater of WORDS. He used to chew the books in the library but after he learned to read he was able to "eat" the words with his eyes.

[flaredragon.livejournal.com]

*chuckles and shakes his head* Nevermind, 'tivo. X)

[quoting-mungo.livejournal.com]

Menander is awesome and I'd love to see more of him. Though obviously you should do whatever you feel you can work with. Me, I'll probably be doing complete drivel; I've had an idea about unlikely superheroes (the invulerable pencil-necked geek, the Superman-strong blind guy, the girl with danger-sense which also trips at things like broccoli for dinner as she REALLY doesn't like broccoli...) bouncing around for over a year and I might as well toy with it.

You've got a different take than me on why all the whining about the fandom is dumb - me, I honestly don't think the fandom's reputation is as bad as people make it out to be. Pretty much the only people that've EVER given me shit about it are people who already wanted to give me shit (or, indirectly given me shit, people who make it their purpose in life to mock anything remotely mockable, people like the ED editors, and I don't consider anything they say to be indicative of the public at large), and I'm quite upfront about the fact that I do porn.

There are two primary reasons why furries get attention on ED (well, for ED, there's also furry drama, which can be quite spectacular), SA, and other such "we're only on the Internet because it lets us be assholes without consequence" sites.
First, furries are easy to mock. You have to be at least a little into e.g. anime to understand how silly some of the things that go on at anime cons are, but furry activities are silly without familiarity to a much greater degree. Less effort required = more mocking done.
Second, furries as a whole are absolutely stellar at twitching. You poke them, they twitch. And flinch. And flail. And make a spectacle of themselves. They seem to often lack the ability to laugh at themselves, which makes them into better target for that kind of people.

But that kind of people are still a vocal minority.


-Alexandra

[altivo.livejournal.com]

You live in a country where sex isn't a dirty word, though. Quite possibly you have no idea how really big a deal is made of sexuality in the US. Those blue-nosed Puritans who came to New England back in the 17th century poisoned our culture so completely that we never have recovered from it. If the Philadelphia Quakers had been the dominant influence in the colonies rather than the nose in the air Bostonians, the US would be a very different place today.

The same attitudes that make same sex marriage a show stopping, warfare inspiring issue here are the things that lie behind the conflicted, twitchy behavior of furries.

[avon-deer.livejournal.com]

Gasoline prices keep dropping. I paid $2.42 this afternoon,

*sighs whistfully.

I agree with your point on the furore surrounding this talk show thing. I think it's a little too close to the truth for some people to accept, and that's the reason for a lot of the anger. It’s clear that's what the media will seek, and then everyone seems surprised when they act according to type.

[hrrunka]

Fuel: Aye. It's bumping along at a bit over a quid a litre round here, which is still way better than the quid thirty six it hit at some point last year.

Furry drama: ...and furry fandom's ability to get itself wound up by representations of itself on trash TV and the like is deeply depressing. I've even seen folks making death threats, FFS.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

The drama is part and parcel with the general immaturity of the furry populace. It's the same angst that pervades the lives of non-furry teens and twenties, and seen in that light it's just plain silly.

[hrrunka]

I guess, though plenty of folk who ought to be old enough to know better seem to fall into it...

[altivo.livejournal.com]

There are always a few lemmings around. In this case, though, I attribute it to "arrested development" in some individuals. ;p

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Yup. If you don't want to be hit by the heat-seeking missiles, it's certainly best not to be building fires and huddling around them. ;p Seems like common sense, no? Or maybe it's just horse sense and that's why I have it and foxes don't?

Gas prices will go back up, I'm sure. Big oil controls them, and for whatever reason, they want them low right now. Probably it has to do with politics and making people forget about energy and global warming issues so that profitability goes back up in the long term.

[keeganfox.livejournal.com]

I'm not blaming them for creating the reputation. That's a whole other issue. I'm just not exactly pleased that it makes everyone who likes furry to seem like they're only in it for the sex.
As a society, we're pretty suppressed in our sexuality. We don't talk about it, and we don't express it, and it gets buried away. Furry is a chance to explore that without the limits of normal society. We're a pretty open minded bunch, but that makes us vulnerable to being exploited as well, so it's a double edged razor. The problem arises when it looks like the only reason we exist.
Maybe it's just me, but furry is how I like to think it would be if we didn't have all the human issues to deal with. It's the ultimate escapist fantasy. To live in a world that's simpler, more pure of intention, cleaner and nicer. To experience that simple joy of endlessly chasing a ball across the yard or lounging in the sun, in plain sight, yet hidden. Curling up in a nice warm den in the winter with a mate. Does sex factor into that? Of course it does, but it's not the reason I'm furry.
Sabot left a comment in my LJ, "The first rule of Fursuit Sex Club is that you don't talk about Fursuit Sex Club", and I think that pretty well sums it up.
Then again I'm 40 and never even had a steady, so what the hell do I know?

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Y'know, you're much too sensible and perceptive to be a fox. (Just teasing. I have to admit that or aerofox and loriana will chew my ears and tail right off.)

As I said above, it's partly the problem that the fandom is dominated by late teens and early twenties with raging hormones. They are unable to distinguish the effects of their very human hormones from the essence of their furry beings. The critters they admire. Most of those totemic animals engage in mating behavior only once or twice a year and are quite uninterested in it the rest of the time. ;p

As for that last bit, I admit I'm puzzled. You look like a darned good catch to me and I can only guess that you've been too busy working and hiding out in your den for anyone to latch onto you.

[keeganfox.livejournal.com]

Probably more of the den hiding than anything. I'm not a very social person, I can be alone in a crowded room very easily. Just really suspicious of people, probably from people pretending to be friends, just to make fun. Once bitten, twice shy. So now it's like "who the hell are you?" when people introduce themselves. Yeah, I know better, but it's still always there.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Boy do I understand that, believe me.

[keeganfox.livejournal.com]

Are you ever on AIM or FM? I'd like to chat more, real time.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

Not really. We'd have to pick a specific time. Once or twice in a month I might connect to LJChat. I haven't used any other IM service in a long time. About once a quarter I remember to log into FM so my character doesn't expire, but I haven't had time to hang around there and play for ages. Sometime I'm going to forget to do it and Tivo with all his "stuff" will just evaporate.

[mondhasen.livejournal.com]

losing sight of the art, literature, and other forms of anthropomorphism that are supposedly the core on which it stands.

Kudos! Zoomorphs is not a dirty word!

...toonophilia on the other hand has that double meaning ;o)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I've not actually seen the word "toonophilia" used more than two or three times ever. There are several other -philias of which furries stand accused, and what I often see of that is that there are hangers-on at gatherings and conventions who identify as zoophiles, plushophiles, etc. Many of them, however, will be quick to loudly state that they are "not furries." They actually seem to view being a furry as something worse than what they are. It's rather bizarre, especially in light of the fact that they continue to congregate with the furry crowd.

Therianthropes are an even more peculiar and marginal group. Some of them are furries, some deny being furries, and even more interestingly, most of them seem to hate each other for some reason. Yet they show up at furry gatherings and even hold panels and discussions there.

[flamekist.livejournal.com]

I’ll trade ya some rain for your blue skies! After two weeks of nearly constant torrential rain I think I’ve forgotten what blue skies look like. This morning we’re under a flash flood watch and we still have several days of rain ahead of us. The small river that borders our subdivision looks like a small whitewater river now. There’s no danger of it reaching my house though since I live on the high end of the subdivision (Not by accident. I know all too well the inconvenience of home flooding!).

Is it already cool enough to need a hot frame up there? The mustard greens sound wonderful and now I’m craving a giant bowl of them sautéed with garlic, onion and crumbled bacon.

Furries, An Outsiders Point of View
I’m not a furry. Never have been, probably never will be. Up until a couple of months ago, my only knowledge of furries was what I had seen at sci-fi conventions for the past 25 years. Nothing I saw there put furries in a good light.

I was raised to think for myself, and not to let others do my thinking for me. One of the best ways I found to do this was to simply ask the people involved what something was about. And so when I met Altivo on LJ a few months ago, I sent him a very timid email asking him to help me understand the furry community. I was really embarrassed to explain my then-current views on furries because I already knew they were really skewed. I was sure I was going to receive an absolutely scathing letter in return. To my surprise I instead received a well-thought out response and he encouraged me to ask more questions and to contact others as well. So while I have no intention in joining the furry community, I can certainly appreciate it for what it is; a community of people with a common interest in nature and the animal kingdom. At least that’s how I see the ones here on LJ.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I prefer my mustard greens raw. I have yet to experience them cooked in a form that I'd call edible. I've been growing a variety that is called "spinach-leaved" in that the leaves are not hairy, so they blend into a salad very nicely and add a little more varied flavor.

No, the hot frame is not necessary yet. I just planted stuff in it back in July because it was vacant and conveniently located. We removed the top, and it is just acting as a raised bed. It's almost time though. Around the first frost, we plant spinach and lettuce in it and reattach the top. If conditions cooperate and we remember to ventilate and water as needed, we end up with fresh greens to pick during the holidays. That's always fun.

You've almost got the furry thing right now. The common interest, though, is in art (graphic arts, sculpture, decorative arts, film animation, writing, music, etc.) that depicts animals, especially animals with some human traits superimposed. That is the central commonality of all these overlapping groups that make up furry fandom. Charitable works are a popular activity and almost always involved when there is a convention. Most of that charity does go to nature and animal-related organizations, which shows that a large percentage of furry fans are in fact interested in nature and the animal kingdom as it really exists, as well as the fantasy animal kingdom inside our imaginations.

When and where all this emphasis on sex came into it, I'm not at all sure. It is certainly not the essential core of commonality, no matter how much a few people try to make it so.

[equusmaximus.livejournal.com]

"...it's partly the problem that the fandom is dominated by late teens and early twenties with raging hormones."

GUILTY! Granted, I was a furry before I even knew what Furries were, growing up with books like Richard Scary, Merry Melodies cartoons, etc. I was 18 or so when I found out about "Furries" and I was in my early 20's when I first logged into FurryMUCK. I'll admit that originally I was there for the TS, but over the years I've toned that down a lot and now I go there mostly to chat with friends I've made over the years. Some I only know online, other's have been RL friends for many years. In fact, the person I "blame" for introducing me to the fandon is a friend that I flew up here for my wedding five years ago. :)

Maturity does have a lot to do with things. Once I got a house of my own, I spent far less time online as I had more important things to do; gardening, lawn-care, household maintainance and projects, etc. Once I got married, it was obviously more important to be spending snuggle-times with my spouse than yiffing online. Fortunately, Trixstir likes Furries too, so it's something we can both enjoy when we have time to. :)

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I never really "got" TS at all. I guess it's like phone sex, which never made sense to me either. I've played around on FM and even Tapestries, and gone through the TS thing as a rather strenuous exercise in improv writing under pressure. I think I passed the test, but no I still don't "get" it.

Being utterly obsessed with the "animal stories" section of the library as a kid, though, and devoted to seeing every animated film with animal characters as many times as possible... Yes, that fits me. I engaged in live role playing of animal characters when I was in elementary school. Some of the girls who were heavy readers were into that, of course the boys thought it was "sissy stuff" but they treated reading itself as that too. After all, it wasn't baseball.

[cabcat.livejournal.com]

For me the mucks were a form of escapism and to have naughty daliances with people on the sly. However I met my mate there and we've been together for a long time, although we've never met and both understand we may never meet but the relationship has worked out well enough for us :)

I do tend to focus on the funnies and the naughties in the artworld but I'm a simple cat and tend to find the people who do the two subjects well do other subjects well too :)